I’ve been testing Bedouin’s Barbary messenger bag now for 5 months.
This bag has hauled more groceries than the first wife of Feodor Vassilyev.
This bag has transported more beers than all four Bernstein brothers, combined.
This bag has been to more outdoor concerts than Ben Dorsey.
And it’s only just starting to get broken in.
I love this bag.
Upon my initial discovery of Bedouin, I was immediately pulled in. Their story, their craft, and the style of their products had me wanting to learn more. I know it’s wordy, and taken directly from their site, but I’m posting it here as an introduction to Bedouin, as I couldn’t describe their brand any better than they can themselves…
“Inspired by traditional craft, geometric art, the macabre and surrealism. Designed for comfort and durability.
At Bedouin we believe in quality. We believe you should buy a bag that lasts a lifetime. We do not believe in disposable fashion and an endless replacement cycle; buy quality and buy it once. We are extremely confident of the quality and workmanship of our bags, that is why we offer a lifetime guarantee on materials and workmanship from normal wear and tear.”
They then go on to talk about sourcing the finest ingredients, the best English craft, being inspired by the Bedouin tent, and all that sort of vibe. You can read the full blurb here.
Products inspired by craft, geometric art, the macabre, surrealism, and the metaphor of a Bedouin tent? Handmade, durable, quality? Not only do they have my curiosity, they have my full attention. Take a look at their site and the wild imagery on it (some selected images shown above). I’m a fan. So I got in touch with the owner and founder of Bedouin, Silas Grant, based out of London.
Silas is an ex-bicycle courier himself, so you can see how the idea for the Barbary messenger and their additional carry products were inspired. Instead of sending me a Barbary messenger with tentative warnings, Silas suggested that “these bags need to be broken in, ideally for 6 months, and treated extremely roughly“.
I was asked to give it a “thorough review, and it needs heavy usage to get to its best (mine is in that old leather jacket stage now, extremely comfortable and like an old friend)“. Mission accepted.
Presentation
The unboxing of the Barbary was a serious treat. So much so that I included an “unboxing” section. Inside the cardboard box, the messenger comes in its own protective Bedouin custom cotton printed drawstring bag. Not some low quality bag. Its so nice it could probably be sold on its own. I’m quickly starting to realize they take their products very seriously.
Even the hang tags are impeccable. The detailed quality of the printing (and beautiful artwork), light-brown super-heavyweight cardstock, rich red cotton hang cord… and the hand pressed Bedouin red wax seal. Oozes quality. One card has the description of the brand and products, the other card has the care instructions for the British Millerain waxed canvas. The second card notes that there is a tin of British Millerain wax dressing inside the package, which I didn’t spot during the unboxing. I look around my desk to see if it had fallen, as well as inside the empty cardboard box, and it appears as if it were left out. I reread the card, it states, “there is a tin inside your bag”. Sure enough, there it is, stored neatly inside one of the interior pockets. This is easily the best branding and packaging I’ve seen for any bag or pack, without question. These are the details that I pay attention to, and Bedouin has executed every single one of them perfectly. Serious credit is due.
Materials
If you’ve been paying attention to my personal Road Test reviews, you’ll recall I make quite a fuss about always choosing black color options for my personal collection. Not this time (even though the black on black on black looked so incredibly fine). This time, I opted for the unique and handsome Olive color option. I’ll admit, I did almost sway back to the black color option right before it was final decision time, but I’m extremely satisfied with my color choice for this particular product.
The Barbary is also available in Black+Natural, Tan+Natural, and Navy+Natural.
For the Barbary I’m testing, the olive color is deep and rich within the 100% cotton British Millerain waxed cotton canvas (10 ounce Rhinowax… the thickest they make at 500 g/m2), sourced from Lancashire, England. This stuff is super durable and extremely water resistant.
Though I have heard plenty of first-hand stories from many who use this material on their bags and outwear, and the fact that fishermen have being relying on it’s waterproof / water resistant properties for over a century, I haven’t personally had to opportunity to experience the battle of H2O and Rhinowax… because it simply never rains in Austin.
From all accounts, it should repel rain like no other, but I haven’t seen it, and I look forward to that day that I will put it to the test (I will post an update here in the comments). However, there is a reason they’ve been making this material in the same way since the 1880′s… it works really well. Below, you can see some of the British Millerain waxed cotton canvas cut into patterns (left side), ready to meet the beast of a sewing machine (right side). The feel of this thick waxed cotton canvas is buttery, almost leathery. While we’re talking about leather, lets talk about leather.
Leather
The leather panel is thick top grain European vegetable tanned leather, which is going to age beautifully. Their leather is sourced from a few different places… “the Grey leather is from Italy, The Tan Veg leather is what Louis Vuitton (doesn’t use), (but an extremely high grade), The black leather is either Italian or English (we refuse to use leather that is not from Europe for quality and animal welfare, and is a by product of the food industry). All the leather is Veg Tanned (this is the old method using tree bark and acorns etc) NOT using such nasty chemicals as most leather (Chromium)“. Additionally, they’re using matching leather edge binding throughout the bag. The reason most brands don’t use leather for edge binding is because it is extremely difficult and takes a talented craftsman many years to learn properly.
The buckles
My favorite. As I said about them before… Military-grade AustriAlpin Cobra buckles, imported from Austria. This bag uses 3 in total; two in the 28mm size used at the front flap and the other is 50mm wide for the shoulder strap closure/adjustment. They can each support up to around 2,000 lbs and they have an amazing resilient clear coat finish to show off the raw forged metal (all three still appear as new, after several thousand airline, bicycle, and car miles).
Made from steel, brass, and aluminum, these buckles will probably outlast you and probably a couple more generations after you. The experience of opening them feels like you’re reloading an AR15 rifle each time you open up the bag. I like the feeling that I’m reloading an AR15 when I’m grabbing some chewing gum from my bag.
Side note: in our previous Buckle Analysis writeup I ignorantly leaned toward the Raptor buckles, but now after having serious firsthand experience and doing much more research on the issue, the Cobra buckles have proven to be a far superior product. Test after test and user experience proves it. Cobra buckles are without question the best buckles on the planet, 100%, no doubt. Anything else is a far 2nd.
Other details
The light blue and olive green Velcro is a great touch for the shoulder strap. It does its job well, and creates some refined visual contrast. There is additional Velcro used in conjunction with the AustriAlpin Cobra buckles to keep the main messenger flap closed. The legit seatbelt webbing has an extremely high tensile strength and also creates the same aesthetic effect as the Velcro on the shoulder strap. The single Riri metal grid zipper adds additional value to an already great combination of materials and hardware. If there is any other brand of zipper that I personally prefer over YKK, it would be Riri (they’re from Switzerland, a country known for quality technical products). The zipper has a different feel, performs equally or better than YKK, and its more difficult and more expensive to source. In this case, it’s also nice that there is just one zipper. There is a nice matching leather puller on the metal zipper slider, making it easy to grab hold of and give a good tug on.
Lining
I saved the lining for the last material to discuss. This stuff is eye-popping and beautifully done. All going back to their metaphor of the Bedouin tent; weatherproof on the outside, comforting and pleasing on the inside, with just enough places to store your stuff.
The lining is natural mild-weight 100% cotton drill lining sourced from Manchester, England. It is all hand-printed, using only water based ink, by a print master on a 25m/75ft long (!!!) print table at his shop located in a railway arch in South London. All the illustrations used for the lining (as well as the website, hang tags, and more) are created by a super talented artist named Zeke Wade, who is heavily inspired by Islamic geometric patterns (among other inspirational sources as well, I’m sure).
Every time you open the bag, its a stunning visual treat. The print that came with the olive color option Barbary is the “Crank” option, in white and black, a mix of bicycle cranks, cogs, wrenches, chains, feathers, chainrings, vines, flowers, with a geometric background to pull it all together. I’m into it.
I don’t know of any other carry brand HAND-printing artwork on their own lining. Especially lining, of all things. Usually this is where companies try to save money to increase profit, by using the cheapest possible nylon or polyester lining directly off of the shelf of a Taiwanese supplier who made too much for a previous client. Not here. I would bet that the lining of the Barbary (taking into account the cotton drill fabric cost, the artist’s costs, and printmaker’s labor costs) is more expensive per yard than the exterior fabrics of most high performance bags. Its the details that count.
Organization
The Barbary messenger (150 x 370 x 640mm / 5.9 x 14.6 x 25.2″) isn’t heavily compartmentalized for all sorts of tech gear and little items, though it still can store them if you implement some Inception Packing. The messenger is actually described as “a large capacity professional Courier Bag designed to fit the body, contract and expand depending on the load being carried.”
The organization of this bag was heavily inspired by Silas’s past as a professional bicycle courier, designed for bicycle couriers in mind, with additional organization and details for non-pro’s in mind. Inside, there is one large main compartment, with no laptop area. If you want to carry a laptop, pop it in a sleeve and then into the main compartment. Bicycle couriers don’t carry laptops, hence the lack of the dedicated compartment. (Below: a photo of Silas’s 3+ year old Barbary, “Transporting 3 shoulders of Belgian Veg tanned leather with my Barbary bag. Damn heavy!“)
Inside this main compartment, there are three drop pockets against the wall of the organizer panel… in other words, these pockets are located on the opposite wall that of the one that is against the wearer’s body. (Below: the three drop pockets inside the main compartment).
Outside the main compartment, on the organizer panel, you have one Riri zipper pocket and two matching drop pockets (without zippers) behind that. Pocket grand total is six, plus one large main compartment.
At first I was a bit concerned about the lack of organization. But I’ve found, through extended use, that 6 pockets is nice. Things are simpler this way. There is just enough organization, where I think if I had even one or two additional pockets, I’d forget where I stored an item. In fact, maybe the Barbary could even go down to 5 pockets, but people do like pockets when they’re about to make a purchase.
As mentioned before, this is a large capacity professional Courier Bag. This bag eats up large, heavy, odd-shaped items, which is common for couriers. 24 beers (whether inside their cardboard case or whether shoved in loose), no problem. A samurai sword (don’t ask), one heavy wool winter jacket, some fresh produce from Whole Foods, several miles across the city, on my bike… sure, no problem.
The big items stay inside the cavernous main compartment, keeping my small accessories (bike tools, portable hard drive, keys, glasses case, etc) in one of the six respective pockets. There have been more than a few occasions where I’ve been surprised by the depth of the main compartment when carrying a large object from point A to B. Now its gone from being surprised, to confidence. I don’t have to worry about not being able to carry it all. With the Barbary, I’m almost certain any reasonable object (or even slightly unreasonable object) will fit just fine.
It should also be noted, for those looking for a smaller option, Bedouin offers a “Genghis” messenger (150 x 350 x 500mm / 5.9 x 13.8 x 19.7″) and has nearly identical internal organization. Note the previous link may change, as the “Saracen” was just recently reintroduced under the name “Genghis”. Bedouin also has a few other carry and non-carry products, all worth taking a careful look at.
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Aesthetics
This could quite possibly be the best looking bag that I own (I own lots). This bag always gets a comment. Always. More so than any other carry product I own. The DEFY BAGS Recon Messenger starts a lot of conversations, but the Barbary takes it to a new level. The comments are always positive, questions regard the waxed cotton, the leather, and/or the buckles. Again, not something I really planned on. I talk about carry all day, so I don’t mind the topic of conversation and meeting a stranger. There is plenty to talk about with this particular bag. Look at the photos, let them speak for themselves. Leave a comment below to share your thoughts on how you think it looks. I think it looks amazing. (Below: photo to illustrate a better idea of scale of the Barbary / I’m 6’0″)
Branding is minimal, at best. You won’t see any giant colorful names across the front messenger panel. Just a simple fabric label with “BEDOUIN” in a nice typeface, located on the shoulder strap. Other than that, there is one other highly-detailed Zeke-Wade-designed fabric label located in the main compartment, which looks great.
Patina
Additionally, since this bag is made of natural materials, its going to age and patina with much greater character than any similar bags constructed from synthetics. You’ll see some photos below of Silas’s personal Barbary, after 3+ years of hard use, cycling through the rough streets of London, international trips, a two-year-long adventure around India by motorbike, and more (left side image shows a brand new Barbary compared to Silas’s Barbary). He admits to being extremely tough on everything he owns, and to never once washing it, waxing the cotton, or conditioning the leather. Looks great. Silas says, “The buckles scratch up and age pretty good, the leather is the raw Veg leather, and is very well broken in…. This bag is so comfortable now.“ Which leads to our next topic.
Comfort and Function
Right out of the box, the single shoulder pad is heavily padded and super comfortable… even when carrying 30+ lbs on my back for extended periods of time, walking and cycling. I’ve been worried about the weight of some of the loads I was about to carry on several occasions. Especially because this is a larger sized messenger, it can really store a lot of mass and volume. But then once its loaded up, it never caused pain, where all other messengers I’ve used would have been painful in this situation.
The shoulder strap can’t be switched from right shoulder to left shoulder. This single-sided construction sucks for some people, but a benefit is that it keeps the bag simpler/more streamlined and keeps the cost/weight/complexity down.
There is also a strip of Velcro webbing which allows you to add accessories (pouches or other objects) to the shoulder strap in order to customize your pack to you.
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I’m not an ambi-turner
Now, about the shoulder orientation. The Barbary slings over your left shoulder, and down your back, toward your right hip. In the UK, they drive on the left side of the road. In the US, we drive on the right side, and subsequently, we bike on the right side as well. So when you’re riding your bike in the US, when you go to look over your left shoulder to check for vehicles approaching you from the rear, the shoulder strap is there at your shoulder. Normally, even with moderate loads, the shoulder strap doesn’t block your line of sight whatsoever (Below: Vision is no problem for a small load / photo taken at speed, looking back and over left shoulder). But if you’re carrying a huge volume load, your sight line can be mildly blocked. In the UK, this obviously isn’t an issue at all, as when you look over your right shoulder to check for vehicles approaching from the rear, you have no shoulder strap. This has only been an issue once, when I was carrying some ridiculously huge object that was sticking out from under the flap on both sides, but I probably should’ve been using a “Wide Load” sign on the messenger at that point.
Additionally, the male/hook Velcro is exposed at your shoulder. For 99.99% of you, this won’t be an issue. If your moustache is somewhere over 12″ long from tip to tip, like mine is, sometimes it can get stuck in the Velcro. Not really something that needed to be addressed, but a funny thing to realize during the process of my testing. Now that summer is here, this bag can make things a little warm while cycling. The waxed cotton canvas doesn’t breathe too well up against a sweaty tshirt in high heat. Then again, the Barbary was designed in London, where it doesn’t get the crazy heat like we experience here. Austin is a bit of an extreme example, so maybe it is a bit unfair to mention it at all (in 2011 we had 90+ days of 100+F degree weather / hottest summer anywhere in the USA since they started recording it). Anything I put on my body here will make me sweat, even the most streamlined of high-tech hiking breathable suspension systems. Either way, I thought it should be noted. An addition of a top grab handle could be nice feature for quick grabbing, but I could see how bicycle couriers wouldn’t require this, simply thinking out loud. Bottom line, this bag is extremely comfortable, even under the heaviest loads.
Construction and Craft
This is a handmade functional piece of artwork. The lining, mentioned earlier, printed by a master print maker in South London. The artwork for the lining, created by a talented artist in London. All the finest and most expensive fabrics and hardware (all sourced from England, Italy, Switzerland, and Austria). These all come together, stitch by stitch, by the skillful hands of a master craftsmen, Paul and his wife Cynthia. Paul and Cynthia own their own handmade bag/luggage crafting workshop located in Lincolnshire, England.
It is a great material and craft story how these different parts traveling in from all of Europe, meet together in this old school workshop, and then become hand sewn together to make a product as nice as the Barbary. Stitch for stitch, everything is perfect. I have an eye for quality control, and there isn’t one mistake on this entire product. Trust me, I’ve looked and tried to find one. This is craft. This is quality. This is handmade. This is why this product costs £390 (around $600 US).
Yep, that’s a bit of money, but I actually think the price is fair, considering what goes into each product. Each of these materials and bits of hardware have a very high price on it. Plus, the high hourly rate of multiple skilled UK artisan craftsmen, renowned for their attention to detail… that is what you’re paying for. That is the type of brand and process I like to support with my money. Plus, they offer a lifetime guarantee “on materials and workmanship from normal wear and tear”, which is a nice bit of insurance. All of their products, the Barbary especially, as well as the Bedouin brand itself, scream quality.
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Similar bags?
What else should you be checking out in a similar space? You should probably have a look at Teddyfish, Porter, KILLSPENCER, Defy, Millican and Bagjack. Each of these is either a little more fashion, or a little more tech than the Bedouin, with none hitting that exact vibe of the Bedouin (which is really quite distinctive).
Conclusions
This is an expensive bag, yes. But for the materials, hardware, skilled artisan craftsmanship and attention to detail that goes into its construction, I firmly believe the price is right. For all the other bags you’ll buy and destroy, you could make this purchase once and forget about it. Keeping one great bag, rather than owning several “OK” bags (quality only hurts once).
Though it may not be a perfect all around bag for some individuals (only OK as a business bag, for example), it has become my favorite all-purpose grab-and-go bag in my life. If I’m running to the grocery store, or grabbing some beers for some friends and I to meet at an outside concert, this is the bag I will grab off the wall and rush out the door with. It’s almost second nature now. Its extremely comfortable, durable, uncomplicated/simple to use, superb-looking, highly-commented-on, and well made by people whose expert craftsmanship I am proud to support.
If you like these attributes and features as much as I do, I highly recommend you considering the Barbary messenger bag large capacity professional courier bag from Bedouin. I’m looking forward to letting in break in and show its developing character over decades to come.
web: BedouinFoundry.com
facebook: Facebook.com/pages/Bedouin-Foundry-Made-in-England/169455196501317
tumblr: BedouinBags.tumblr.com
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Nice review…and always good to see the UK representing, and showing everyone that we still have some of the finest crafstmen/women in the world.
These are without doubt beautiful looking bags…and that’s as much as i’m gonna say on this one as I have strong opinions when it comes to pro courier bags. :]
It sure will be nice to give a serious thoughtful review of a pro courier bag that leans to the extreme of the technical/performance side. (;
Great review! Never heard of Bedouin but this is a really really nice bag..
Been looking into Trakke (www.trakke.co.uk) and Acronym (www.acronym.de) as well
Heya John,
Thanks for your comment. I’ve personally emailed Acronym a couple times, still hoping for any response back. (hoping for either a Road Test or even an interview). Huge fan of what they do, at least from the images I’ve seen online. Fingers crossed. Also- nice call on the Trakke bags, never spotted them before. They look great from a quick initial viewing.
And if you’re digging Acronym, also check Bagjack, as those guys play together: http://www.bagjack.com/
Upon further inspection, the Trakke products are even cooler than I thought. Some real clever features/functions. I’d love to see one in the flesh.
Happy Friday. A few thoughts about this bag and bags in general…
-This is an exquisite bag. Understated elegance, sensible design and good contrast of materials and texture. In short, they nailed it.
-The BEDOUIN Barbary appears to have the same target market for loyal clients of Brooks Saddles and Burberry Trench Coats.
-The word “craftsmanship” is used far too generously especially when it comes to internet accolades on the “new new”. But I think these English Gents are worthy of such praise.
-I fantasize about owning a Toyota Tundra and hauling lumber through the dense wilderness so that I can build an off-grid cabin. The reality is, I’m an urban guy with a fetish for Fixed Gear Bikes and vintage Swedish cars.
Yes, I enjoyed watching the 3-4 episodes of “Triple Rush” but I don’t think I’ll ever require a Pro Courier Messenger Bag to haul my gear and Scotch. But if I ever needed one, It will be one of the following: PAC Designs Pro Ultimate, Bailey Works Super Pro, Freight Baggage or Chrome Berlin.
-Price Points are high because of several confluent factors in the economy: spike in costs for materials, inflation, regulation-red tape, operating expenses, lack of competition, etc.
The profit margin on Messenger Bags are still gaudy. The reason is that there isn’t enough competitive pressure in this space to bring down the price points. A regular everyday Messenger Bag and a Pro Courier Bag are two very different bags. There simply isn’t enough companies in the latter to lower prices given their increasing volume. So these companies have no incentive to discount if they know Hipsters and Fake Messengers are willing to pony up the cash. Paniers and Cargo Trailers are functional but definitely not cool. Not yet at least.
-1,000 Denier, Classic Leather, patented Buckles, Military-spec construction are all nice but I doubt I will ever be in the field of combat or in an emergency SHTF situation. And should I need a bag to escape from the tyrannical arms of the government, I’m confident that my North Face Solaris 40 will meet my needs.
-Anyone else notice the spike in Ebay listings for Mission Workshop bags?
-The NBA is rigged. I can’t wait for the new Muse release. I love this site.
Cheers.
“-I fantasize about owning a Toyota Tundra and hauling lumber through the dense wilderness so that I can build an off-grid cabin. The reality is, I’m an urban guy with a fetish for Fixed Gear Bikes and vintage Swedish cars.”
What kind of Swedish autos? I’ve always been in love with the Volvo 1800 (wagon of course, even though the coupe is sexy). I’m currently on my 7th Swedish automobile. Love them.
Photos below of my old 1990 SAAB 900 SPG, heavily modified for performance and for shows…
http://www.900aero.com/images/cars/taylor02.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_VAuAHsWKNqw/RhrSyN3ZKYI/AAAAAAAAAE8/04ZCvcIVYDE/s1600/saab111.jpg
Another one of my favorites was a 1983 Volvo 242 Tii, modified with all sort of rally/race bits… and a 240 GT interior. Black corduroy seats with orange leather vinyl stripe. Awesome.
NBA is rigged. I like how no one even cares those idiots won. Looking forward to the new Muse myself. Hopefully they’ll come through Austin again this year. Thanks for the Carryology love, stoked to have you in our community.
Any requests for writeups/articles/posts for us to do in the future? We’re always interested in hearing your ideas. Though I’ve got to say, we’ve got some incredible/big stuff brewing in the works.
Taylor,
Nice car.
The fastest Swedish Car I’ve ever owned was the 1989 Saab 900 Turbo. It was purchased used. The acceleration was blindingly fast with little lag. Shifting was somewhat bipolar–typical of Saabs.
My favorite Swedish Car was the old family Volvo 240 Wagon. Great memories in this tank. It was simple in design and very easy to repair with a few minor electrical issues. I drove this thing everywhere–music festivals, weekend trips to NYC, the prom, college, etc.
Sadly, they just don’t make these bullet-proof cars anymore. These days, auto makers produce rides for those overly concerned with their self-image. See: Nouveau Riche. So now I drive a Honda Accord.
My guess is Muse will continue on with the Libertarian, “us v. them”, Illuminati theme which bolstered their global appeal. Great live band. They seem to have picked up where Radiohead left off on “OK”.
Austin, huh?
Dr. Ron Paul supporter?
Those SAABs sure are surprisingly fast, aren’t they? In fact, if I recall my facts correctly… there was a 9000 Turbo from the early 90′s, that was actually FASTER in acceleration than the Ferrari of the same year. That being said, I love turbochargers. I modified the Hell out of that 900 SPG above (about 300 HP, 350 ft/lbs of torque, tons of experimental turbo related tweaks). Fun times.
I agree with you on the Volvo 240. I’ve owned 3 of them so far; 1990 240 wagon, 1991 240 wagon SE edition, and then the 1983 240 2-door turbo coupe (now I have a Volvo V70). The 240 is one of the best cars ever made. I loved that rear facing seat in the wagon. The perfect road trip car. Did you also have to do the wiring harness repair? Took a solid weekend, but other than that… never an issue. Totally agree about the cars built nowadays… nothing bulletproof like back then.
We caught Muse here at Austin City Limits, they killed it as a headliner one of the nights. Damn solid.
Austin, love it.
Eh, can’t say for sure who I support, its all politics to me. However, this guy that is currently in the Texas state capitol building is a total moron. Can’t believe its just a few blocks away from where I’m at. You’d never guess it living here.
Taylor,
The 9000 from the late 80′s and mid-90′s was an impressive machine especially the Aero. It was comfy, fast and very safe. Even though it was a rare car, it was apparently very popular in my State.
Should I continue to short GM?
I left the wiring to a Master Volvo Mechanic. It was much cheaper to maintain in the 1990′s. This partly explains why my fellow New Englanders abandoned their Swedish rides in favor of Subarus: less expensive, reliable, fwd.
I wish Volvo would just go back to their roots instead of trying to compete with their German counterparts.
Perry is a world class ninny but he’s also in a position of power and some influence on the national stage. This makes him dangerous.
Do your part and oust this guy from office.
Acronym doesn’t get back to people often, and they don’t give bags out for reviews.
I emailed them three times just to get permission to post PICTURES of their bags to no avail. Also tried Twitter – got a reply from @erlsn once, telling me to try emailing again.
Nope.
Oh well. Their bags are still beautiful, and luckily Bagjack’s a little more responsive.
Sure is a bummer : /
Bagjack was super responsive, they make killer products too.
Wow, thanks for the great and thorough review. I had heard of Barbary and have been on the fence to getting the smaller Saracen bag for a while, but hadn’t yet due to a lack of reviews and concerns over the materials.
Speaking of, what are your thoughts on the waxed canvas? You mention it has a buttery/leathery hand to it, does it have a smell? I’ve heard that waxed canvas jackets (such as Barbour) often develop a musty smell that is quite potent, and this is something I would not want in a bag rubbing against my back and clothing.
Also, I hadn’t seen pictures of an aged bag, so that’s a great reference, but how easily would you say it attracts dirt/looks grungy?
I’d appreciate any further comments you might have, and thanks again!
Erik
Heya Erik,
Appreciate your feedback and your message.
Personally, I’m super interested in the Saracen (now called the Genghis). Shoot us a message if/when you end up pulling the trigger. Would love to hear your thoughts.
Waxed canvas. I’ll say this… my Dad has an old 1960′s Belstaff waxed canvas motorcycle jacket. That definitely has a musty smell. But that has been exposed to extreme downpours, covered in road grime, thousands of miles of exhaust, and spattered in motorcycle oil/grease. Not to mention its 50 years old. And he didn’t really take incredible care of it, which is actually pretty cool. So, that jacket has a smell. This bag, nope. Nothing to speak of. If I try real hard, it smells like “cotton”, which pretty neutral.
For the attraction of dirt/grime, it does a damn good job of repelling it all. I throw the bag down into the dirt regularly. It just takes a swipe of the hand to brush it off. Never really sticks in there. At my place we have two cats and a dog, so there is animal hair everywhere, including on the Barbary. That too, just brushes off.
Any other thoughts/questions?
Think you’ll purchase the Saracen/Genghis?
Hi Erik, Never really noticed any musty smell, the wax smells pretty good, as does the leather, but I use it every day. My old bag in some pictures is 3 years old, and I love it. It is really dirty though, but 2 years on the back of a motorbike in India will do that, that place is very dusty! I could clean it but I prefer to keep abusing it to test it to the limit, as said, I am very good at destroying jeans, phones, shirts in a short time, so my Barbary is doing well I think.
Check the face book to see my aged bag: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bedouin-Foundry-Made-in-England/169455196501317
The idea behind Bedouin is that it gets better with age, becomes ‘yours’.
Thank you both for the comments. I think the Genghis (because I didn’t realize the Saracen didn’t have a padded strap) is the closest thing to the perfect messenger I’ve found so far. Mind you I haven’t owned/used a messenger bag extensively, but after careful consideration of my needs and what I’d like to carry, I think the Genghis will work great. Hopefully I’ll be picking one up in navy in the coming months. Now for the difficult part of saving for that grail item…
I just briefly navigated through Bedouin’s site. One word comes to mind: esoteric.
“Geometric Art” is not just an advertising slogan, it’s a discipline, a derivative of the Mystery Schools. Modern Pagans attuned to Sacred Geometric seek out harmony in scale, spatial considerations and spirituality. Just look at all the Occult symbolism.
How many companies are willing to post a picture of legendary bad guy Aleister Crowley on its web site?! I’m surprised Madame Blavatsky and M.P. Hall were left out.
There are juggernaut, global corporations which follow the same Philosophy but they rely more on the ubiquitous pyramid or Eye of Horus.
Interesting stuff.
Awesome insights Andrew. If you’re planning on placing an order, make sure you get a chance to have an email exchange from the Silas, the brains behind and founder of Bedouin. Great brand with a killer philosophy. Definitely interesting.
Thanks Andrew, Zeke and I have been obsessed with Geometric pattern for a long time, mainly due to his dad, Dave Wade, check his website: http://www.patterninislamicart.com/ totally free archive of his travels through the Middle East, North Africa and India since the 70′s. All shot on slide film and scanned, 10,000 shots I think! I would also give some dues to Robert Irwin and his book ‘The Arabian Nightmare’ a good read, very surreal.
Silas,
Thanks for the link.
I remember seeing an array of pieces and artifacts from the Ancient Near East in the British Museum. Fascinating topic.
Here in the States, the phrase “Sacred Geometry” is rarely invoked. You may find it covered in dense Academic papers or explained in Masonic Lodges but it’s just not part of the mainstream vernacular.
The bag itself is just gorgeous. There’s obviously an attention to detail that reveals a true master of the craft.
For this price, I would not use it as a professional courier bag. Quality is quality, but leather? Metals that might rust? It might be courier-*style* but I don’t know very many people who would consider this for real courier work.
Which is only a slight issue. The bag looks like it’s built to be a legacy. Being as obsessed with bags as I am now, I can’t imagine what I would do if I went into my grandparents’ attic and found this in all its aged glory. Probably wouldn’t take it off, ever.
Thanks for the review. This was wonderful.
Hey Christopher,
Thanks for the message, man.
I share similar thoughts regarding materials for professional couriers, but for a day to day bag that will patina beautifully, its pretty fantastic. Bedouin really walks that line between fashion and tech in a really unique way.
I love the way the bag looks all crisp and new, but man, once it really starts to show it age, its going to be amazing. I’ll probably put some photos up on the Carryology facebook wall every year or so.
-By the way, if you’re reading this, you should check out Christopher’s awesome bag blog (The Bag Collector), tons of great carry info to read through… http://bagcollector.tumblr.com/
Thanks for the shoutout, Taylor.
Fair comment, but alloys, brass and stainless steel don’t rust, and leather is one of the best materials out there, just gets better and better. Show me a Polyester or Nylon bag improving after years of use
as for pro courier, we are thinking of developing one with Scott at Black Rainbow, http://www.blackrainbowproject.co.uk/ price could be a bit scary though.
“we are thinking of developing one with Scott”
That has my brain melting! Epic.
It would be my utmost pleasure to Road Test one of those devils whenever that turns into reality. As you know, Scott is one Helluva a great dude.
Ah, that’s a good point. These newfangled alloys are probably impervious to everything.
As for courier bags? Leather and waxed canvas get that beautiful patina, but honestly I’m always impressed with the 15-20 year old courier bags I’ve seen too. Even old Timbuk2s (in their tag-junky days) have stories to tell, although I’m sure they don’t do it quite as elegantly.
Bedouin x Black Rainbow would be absurd. Oh man. Like Hendrix jamming with Cobain, EXCEPT IT’S A BAG AND YOU CAN WEAR IT.
Count me in.
Let’s ‘do lunch’ Silas! :]
Very nice! Awesome materials, fit and finish. The only concern is the fixed strap orientation, any bag at this price should give you the option to switch the strap from one side to another, or be custom made to your preference.
Tony, initially I felt the same way. But for what this bag is, a super simple messenger, I like how it cuts down on additional materials/straps. I have more complicated bags that I also love, but sometimes its nice to be so simple. Otherwise, the option to switch sides is a great feature.
Custom to your preference is actually probably possible if you email Silas at Bedouin directly. I would guess it would take a little extra time, but likely doable.
Hi Tony, Yes, we are looking at doing reverse side for the US, it’s pretty simple to do, but individual orders would take 2 months. To make it changeable, that would be a headache and seriously increase the price.
Silas
^ Nice!
Also, I’d like to state again, that even though the shoulder pad is on the left shoulder (UK-spec), it really doesn’t hinder visibility that much at all. Maybe only if you’re hauling a massive sized load like pictured above (Silas’s Barbary carry the three shoulders of veg tanned leather … http://carryology-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Bedouin-Barbary-Messenger-Review-26.jpg ). Otherwise, I think the UK-spec aspect is pretty cool.
Suggestion:
A blog post comparing Pro Courier Single Strap Bags (one main strap along with stability strap or X-strap) from the usual suspects: R.E. Load, Chrome, Bailey Works, PAC Designs, Freight Baggage, Seagull, Burro, etc.
I think Timbuk2 has more mainstream traction and most Pro Couriers seem to prefer the aforementioned shops. Mission Workshop’s Shed is not a traditional Messenger Bag given its compartments which limits the necessary open storage space you find in the others.
And of course, you guys are privy to the smaller shops out there such as Vaya.
Do a price analysis. Research durability of materials. Conduct surveys and feedback from working Professionals. There are endless internet debates on which shop produces the best Messenger Bag and there are no correct answers since it’s purely subjective. But wouldn’t it be cool if a majority of this site’s readers agreed on a clear #1 based on certain parameters?
This would force these shops to up their game, justify their price points and possibly lower it (yeah!).
I love these bags. I am obsessed with reading internet reviews about them. But the one major hindrance or objection is the high price points.
So not only would a competitive analysis give the readers more clarity on the major brand names, it could potentially open the doors for smaller, independent shops to this market. And as a result, enhanced product offerings and potentially lower prices. Win win.
As the owner of a company which specializes in pro courier bags I feel I need to say a few things in relation to the ‘high price points’ of these bags.
The first thing you need to bear in mind is the size of most of these companies, and the direct effect this has on the pricing of their bags.
In relation to the mainstream bag manufacturers, most companies making pro level courier bags are tiny, and in the case of my own company you can’t get any smaller as I design and make every single bag myself.
This has a huge effect on the pricing of the products.
To give you a very honest example…
The velcro I buy costs over £30 for a single roll of either the hook or loop side. I would need to buy ten rolls to see a significant drop in that price. I just can’t afford to spend that amount in one go.
The same goes for fabrics.
Technical fabrics are already very expensive, but one of my suppliers has just changed its pricing structure so that the price you pay is determined by how much you buy…again, being a tiny company I can’t afford to buy huge quantities…this means the fabrics I buy from them have just instantly increased in cost by FIFTY percent…and on fabrics which cost as much as these do, it’s a big increase.
It’s a sad fact that the smaller the company, the more you have to pay for raw materials compared to a bigger company.
When you’re only buying smaller amounts, the shipping costs aren’t economical either…especially when a lot of what you buy is imported from other countries. I’ve had fabrics that have cost me more to actually ship to me than the actual fabric cost.
You then have to take into account the amount of time spent designing, prototyping, testing, and manufacturing the products.
I’ve been testing my current flagship bag for two years now, and have just completed the final prototype.
Because of the amount of work involved in my bags, each one takes me several days to make from start to finish. I don’t have a team of cutters, and a team of sewers, I don’t have somebody to answer my phone or reply to my emails, or take my bags to the post office, or deliver them directly to customers…all of this has an effect on how long things take, and how long things take has an effect on how much the products cost.
But believe it or not, a lot of the smaller, independent bag makers, myself included are actually under-pricing their bags.
My flagship messenger sells for approx £350 GBP…It has 13 Austrialpin products on it, uses raw materials that cost me a fortune to buy and ship, and takes me up to 3 days to build from start to finish.
If I were to use traditional pricing methods based on all of that, the bag would easily double in price…but I don’t, because I know that the very people I would like to be using my bags simply wouldn’t be able to afford to buy them….so I under-price them and accept a smaller profit.
It’s not as simple as ‘more customers equals expansion equals lower prices’ either. Not everybody wants to go down that route. Some people want to keep small scale manufacturing alive.
Sure, there are SOME companies out there who are making a LOT of profit from messenger bags…those whose designs are quick and simple to make, whose features are lacking, and who can afford to buy materials in bulk.
Speaking for myself, If I were in this game purely for the money, I would have quit a LONG time ago. Over the years I’ve sold almost everything I had to keep myself going and allow me to develop and make what I consider to be great bags, and I do it because it has become my passion.
Take a look at the picture up there of Silas’s bag with the big stack of leather strapped to it, ready to be cycled back through the busy London traffic to be turned into beautiful bags…THAT is passion, NOT profit.
I guess the point I’m trying to make in my usual long winded way is ‘Go easy on the little guys’….because trust me, they’re making far less money than you might think.
You may look at a bag and think “£350 for a bag? That’s outrageous”….but in some cases, that equates to less than minimum wage for the person who made it.
The little guys need support to be able to keep craftsmanship and passion alive in a world that wants everything quick, cheap, and easy…so lets not go pushing them too hard to drop their prices.
The world doesn’t need more large scale, soulless companies.
All the best!
Scott
Black Rainbow Project
Well put, man. As always.
Very soon I will be doing that post on pricing breakdown, in hopes to eliminate consumer shock when they spot a handmade bag’s price tag over $200, $300, etc. And to simply share and further educate on the stuff behind the scenes, which you just did really well here.
Scott,
Not enough superlatives in the English vocabulary to describe your post. Carryology should post your comment in its own piece with Editorial feedback. It’s that good!
But to your point on pricing, it’s a common struggle especially here in the States where the Federal Government favors their Corporate allies, the “Big Guys” with hand-outs like tax credits, loopholes, grants, bailouts, etc. The smaller shops competing against them for market share is at an obvious disadvantage.
Given this scenario, most clear-thinking consumers in this space would opt for the Independents and they usually do. However, it’s a tough economy and in my view, things will inevitably go from bad to worse if you’re paying attention to what the Central Bankers (Fed Reserve) are doing.
So logic follows, price points govern the ebb and flow of sales. Quality and reputation will always trump discounts but times are tough and as a consumer, an advocate of Fixed Gear Bikes and admirer of Messenger Bag Culture, I still have a hurdles to overcome when if the asking prices are north of $200.
Secondly, I believe the spike in prices have more to do with market demand. Years ago, Chrome sold their Citizen Bags for nearly half of what they’re asking now. Yes, material costs have gone up, regulation have increased, taxes are a bitch and industrial machines are expensive to maintain. But if Hipsters never latched on to the subculture, price points would be more stable since demand would be lower. This view is supported by anecdotal observations. I’m sure there are statistical analysis somewhere out there.
If the reasons you cited–cost of materials–is the source of fluctuation, why not be creative instead and rely on alternative, more accessible and durable fabrics? Perhaps recycled military fabrics?
If you trust your design and artistry and have built up a huge reservoir of good will, the money will eventually follow.
In other words, make adjustments to your business model, be creative, don’t replicate the competition and win out market share based on price points and a good reputation.
Keep in mind, Pro Couriers were using canvas bags long before 1,000 Denier Cordura fabric. I’m not dismissing the superiority of modern fabrics but in my view, it’s over-sold.
Oh I completely agree that there are some companies out there who have mastered the art of ‘Hipster watching’, and as such realize that they can pretty much set their own prices based more on their desirability than how much time and materials cost has gone into their products.
I won’t mention any names as it’s up to them how they conduct their affairs, but I do often wonder how they sleep at night? Probably very comfortably, and on sheets woven from the finest Unicorn manes. :]
I also agree that MANY companies could be far more creative with their material choices…but if we’re talking about companies that are more interested in the profits, they will always go with the ‘me too’ options…often in both materials AND design.
It’s no surprise to see so many bags out there with a definite nod towards Mission Workshop style.
One problem though is that the more accessible fabrics are often the ones everybody else is using, and sourcing more durable fabrics is almost always going to push prices UP rather than bring them down. Even if you use recycled fabrics like ex military.
It’s no surprise that for example, Killspencer and Defy, who use ex military fabrics are in the higher price range. The sourcing, intercepting, transporting, and then industrial washing processes all go towards the final bag costs.
Most of my fabrics have to be imported from the US, simply because I can’t get anything which suits my needs here in the UK.
Waxed canvas and Leather can make a beautiful bag…but when the end product will be facing ten hours a day in constant, pissing rain, like a typical UK winter, it WILL need to be cared for…and most couriers would rather not spend time rewaxing, and conditioning their bags….hell, a lot can barely remember where they left them! :]
I don’t think there is a single market that pushes a bag to it’s limits as much as the pro courier circuit….not even the military market, as they will always retire their kit before it shows too much wear,,,couriers don’t…they use their bags till they DIE…an if a bag can be destroyed, a working courier will do it quicker than anyone else.
So for me, I go out of my way to source what I consider to be the best materials for the job, regardless of where they come from.
Sure, couriers were using canvas bags long before Cordura….but then, cars were using solid rubber tyres long before the inner tube was invented. :]
Everybody has their own opinions on what is right for any given task, and what is the minimum you can get away with in both materials and cost terms, but often what seems like a huge expense initially will prove over time to be the biggest bargain you ever spent your hard earned dead pres folders on!
I have no doubt that Bedouin Foundry bags will fall into this category and prove over time that they are a true investment, and hope that my own products will too.
BTW…..if Carryology ever start a full on forum it will mean the end of my business as i’ll be on it too often! :]
All the best!
Scott
Black Rainbow Project
Scott,
Thanks for the comment and trenchant analysis. Much appreciated. I hope you’re rewarded with business for your honest input here.
I hope my comments don’t across as unreasonable or petty but open dialogue of this nature usually works. It’s a built-in regulation of commerce or blind check on quality and prices to filter out the quick-buck-artists.
Take the computer market. Laptops remain accessible and affordable despite the economic capitulation. Reason: competition and invention.
My initial argument is that demand have fueled price points in the Messenger Bag space and given the low number of shops, there is no logical business incentive to discount. Therefore, there is no real check on this market other than consumer feedback.
Due to the limited supply of shops, there seems to be an acquiescence to price points. The false assumption is that they’re of equal quality just because they feature similar materials.
Inevitably, the backlash will be germinate in the form of DIY outlets. This has already snowballed in the Housing market. Tiny Homes built from $50 stock plans and reclaimed materials have responded to the McMansions and SubPrime mess.
On your point about investing in quality, I do agree on some level in seeking out well-crafted pieces for the long haul. My father held this view for years believing his Benz would run forever. It had electrical-computer issues and was insanely expensive to maintain and insure.
At the end of the day, I love Messenger Bags but it’s just a Messenger Bag and there are psychological barriers I believe most consumers face on what they’re willing to pay.
I owned a Patagonia Critical Mass Bag for 10 years without any problems. It was purchased for about $50 on sale, constructed from Polyester with a little coating and supported by the best “Product Warranties” in the Western Hemisphere. No rips, leaks or mortar shell tears. Polyester. [Note: Patagonia relies on Recycled Fabric on their latest bags]
Sure, there is a world of difference between Patagonia and Bailey Works but is the increase in price points worth the extras when the Patagonia can just as easily haul the same number of PBR cans?
If a small shop is being milked by the fabric wholesalers, why not adopt the same attitude as the consumers and force them to lower prices by means of competition or invention?
It really comes down to your own personal preference as to how important performance, fit, comfort, longevity etc are to you.
I know people who have had Timbuk2′s for 15 years, and I know couriers who have destroyed the same bag in a few short months. When you rely on something doing its job well for your own livelihood it can be seen as more than ‘just a messenger bag’.
Some people are much tougher on bags than others. For those who aren’t so hard on them, there is less reason to spend money on something high end.
There is a huge difference in the abuse a regular bag owner inflicts on their bag compared to a working courier, which I think most people struggle to understand.
Personally speaking, neither demand, nor competition play any part in the pricing of my bags. At least not directly. There is no way I could make the same product for less and still survive without either changing the design and fabrics completely, which in my opinion would make for a lower quality bag in all ways, or buying materials in bulk. The latter can’t be done without a massive financial investment, which I am in no position to achieve.
“If a small shop is being milked by the fabric wholesalers, why not adopt the same attitude as the consumers and force them to lower prices by means of competition or invention?”
This is a beautiful theory, but completely impossible to implement.
There is no way a single, tiny company, who can only afford to order at most a single roll at a time can put any pressure on a supplier who sells thousands of yards per order to most companies.
Even if every tiny independent bag maker suddenly stopped ordering fabric it would have little to no effect on the fabric pricing.
Tiny companies simply can’t put pressure on suppliers as I’m pretty sure any independent bag maker who has dealt with suppliers will tell you.
I actually had one supplier tell me he could no longer continue our conversation once I told him the amounts i would be dealing in. I was actually shocked by the rudeness of the response i got. He then ignored my emails.
The only real way you can compare any products is to keep the testing process equal. Meaning if you want to compare say, your Patagonia with a high end courier bag properly then a year each on the same working couriers back will give a proper comparison. It’s not enough to speak to different owners of different bags because one persons usage will be completely different to another’s.
Anyway…as I said in my opening statement…it really comes down to personal preference as to whether you feel you will be getting your moneys worth from any particular bag.
At the end of the day, I personally build my bags to be the best I feel they can be for the job they are designed to do. I would love to be able to sell them for less, but if achieving that meant changing either the design, or quality I would rather stop making them.
So if any of my suppliers are reading this…hook a brother up! :]
All the best!
Scott
Black Rainbow Project
Scott,
Personal preferences are usually shaped and guided by the herd whether the individual wants to admit it or not. This is why a certain Messenger Bag company on the West Coast spends a good chunk of change on sponsoring luminaries in the Fixed Gear and Skateboarding scene. It gives them a level of “street cred” and it follows, revenue and market share.
And this has an enormous impact on how prices are set in the market–based on consumer demand. Should paniers morph into the new “must have” in Williamsburg, I’m certain prices would double tomorrow.
As for quality, I agree. Pro Couriers have impossible tasks in transporting hernia-inducing loads from point A to point B in unforgiving traffic.
The irony is that they make a pittance in income. Expensive Messenger Bags are in direct tension with the whole subculture which revolts against the trappings of consumerism.
While it’s a delicate balance to produce high-quality, durable bags for Pro Couriers at a reasonable price, I still believe the price points are inflated.
As for sourcing materials, smaller shops have the advantage of being more mobile, flexible and creative. Since the over-head operating expenses are lower, these proprietors can carve out market share through competitive pricing. And if the DuPont Family continues to charge exorbitant rates for their fabrics, just revert back to other less expensive materials and offer a guarantee to encourage sales.
This statement is simply not true: “Even if every tiny independent bag maker suddenly stopped ordering fabric it would have little to no effect on the fabric pricing.”
Prices are determined by fluctuations in the market or buying in selling. Should a product become stagnant or obsolete, it’s price points will decrease to reflect its standing relative to whatever the Fed Reserve does to the worthless currency.
You’re right. A fair, objective comparison between different shops (scale and scope) would magnify the differences and address the price conundrum. This is my request from this site.
Best of luck and thanks for the dialogue.
Before I head out in the sweltering slums of Cambridge, Massachusetts, I want to offer the Bamboo Bike as an example of what a little creativity can do. Carbon Bikes can demand a few coins. Fixie Parts can be just as expensive. Bamboo Bikes are strong, inexpensive if sourced from the right places and accessible.
Don’t forget though that not ALL bag makers are cut from the same cloth. *little bag making joke there* ;]
It is a well known fact among those that know me that I am far too generous. I know how it is to struggle financially, and am saddened by the decline in work for bike couriers over recent years…as such I help them out as much as possible. If a courier is interested in one of my bags I do my best to ‘help’ them get one.
I also sponsor as many cycling based events as I can and never expect or ask for my logos to be included in the promotion. I don’t do it for street cred, or even business…I do it because I like to help anybody who puts their time and energy into making the cycling community the amazing thing it is.
I understand your viewpoint….but there are still some genuine, honest folks out there who do what they do simply because they love doing it, and love being a part of everything that being a manufacturer of cycling bags can draw you into. The fact that they can make any kind of living from it is often an unexpected and welcome bonus. These people will always have my support.
I stand by my comment “Go easy on the little guys”…..It’s like a jungle sometimes, it makes me wonder how we keep from going under!
For now though, “I’m afraid I can no longer continue our conversation”. :]
All the best!
Scott
Black Rainbow Project
I decided to search for a local retailer in Singapore, and I chanced upon this website which sells the Barbary for $349.50 Singapore dollars. So that is about $273.84 USD. It is a real bargain compared to the $700 original price. Not sure if they ship to the US, but if they do, you guys are in luck!
http://www.advercity.com.sg/for-men.html
One last thing I will say though seeing as I hadn’t spotted that last comment.
Using your example of bamboo bikes.
Yes, bamboo as a material CAN be cheap IF sourced from the right places, and CAN be accessible if you happen to live near a supplier, but in order to make a high performance frame from it, you need the right type of bamboo, resin, etc…if you don’t live near a supplier then you’re going to have to pay more for it to cover shipping. You then need somebody who knows what they’re doing, and has the necessary equipment needed to turn it into a high quality, usable bike frame. That isn’t a five minute job…it takes a persons time. If you’re that person, you want to be compensated for your time.
I’m not aware of any bamboo frames that can match the performance of say a high end carbon or ti frame that ISN’T still expensive. And so the cycle continues.
You can’t compare a cheap bamboo frame to a high end carbon frame and say it’s a better solution because it’s cheaper….they are two totally different kinds of bike.
Just like you can’t say that you can make the same high performance messenger bag with a different design and cheaper, more accessible materials, because it won’t be the same anymore.
Business model theories, and ideas about how to make the same, or better products with less are all good and well but aren’t always possible to implement in the real world.
That said, if anybody can think of a way to persuade all of my suppliers that it’s in their best interest to reduce their prices for somebody who buys 1 roll of fabric every few months, or a couple of rolls of webbing, or a few buckles…OR can find me any cheaper alternatives that can match the performance of what I currently use, please get back to me.
OK…I’m done for real now, let’s get back to talking about Bedouin Foundry’s awesome bags!!! :]
All the best!
Scott
Black Rainbow Project
Scott,
The Bamboo analogy wasn’t intended as an Apple-to-Apple comparison. It was meant to convey creative possibilities for the budget-minded individual.
Since the production the Bamboo Bike is still relatively new compared with Carbon or Chromoly Steel Frames, I’m sure with time, new ideas in cost-efficiency will emerge.
There are alternatives, in other words to the rigid conventional thinking of mainstream businesses. Diversification usually translate into product enhancement and even market corrections in price points.
The common rebuttal by like-minded shop proprietors is cost in materials. My response is be creative with materials and don’t be victimized by market forces. Failure to adapt would result in loss revenue.
If the economy is in shambles and price points remain high, consumers will seek out alternatives as they historically do whether its black markets or DIY sewing through pooled resources.
I respect your input but this statement confounds me: “Business model theories, and ideas about how to make the same, or better products with less are all good and well but aren’t always possible to implement in the real world.”
Says who? Patagonia devotes an entire division to Recycled Fabrics. For many years, Simple Shoes produced comfy kicks with recycled tires and plastic bottles before they went out of business. There are many homesteaders in rural America who built their off-grid shelters using nothing but reclaimed materials, bypassing the high-end costs of big box distributors.
It’s possible. It’s not easy but very possible.
Ok, this is dragging out a little far now so I’ll leave the conversation after this.
The point I’m making is that it ISN’T always possible for a small business to achieve the level of performance it wants to without spending a certain amount on the raw materials.
My main objective is to make what I consider to be the best. From a strictly performance basis.
IF i could find materials and hardwear that could meet or exceed the performance of what I currently use, but be cheaper, then I would….but after years of sourcing, sampling, testing, and redesigning…I haven’t been able to find anything better for each job than what I currently use at this stage.
You may not agree, but as such a small business I have no ability to persuade any of my suppliers to reduce their prices…believe me, I’ve tried. But I am not about to start using cheaper alternatives which don’t offer the same level of performance just to save money.
It’s not always about a lack of creativity or market forces…It doesn’t matter how creative you are, there will be a point where you can’t save any more money without affecting performance.
I’m not trying to make the cheapest bags, I’m trying to make the best performing bags for their purpose.
I’m actually not a big fan of using recycled materials in my own bags for the simple reason that EVERYTHING has a life span, and I want my products to offer the maximum life span they can. Recycled materials are already part way through their lifespan. Now for goods which won’t receive a high level of abuse this is fine, but for my own bags I see it as a compromise.
One of the reasons there are recycled fabrics in the first place, especially military fabrics is because they were seen to be past their best.
You won’t find many high end tents, or parachutes, or boat sails, or hiking packs made with cheap, or recycled fabrics. You won’t see military products made with cheap, or recycled fabrics, you won’t find high end bike frames made with cheap, or recycled tubing from old bikes…the reason being that high performance products demand a certain level of performance from their materials.
I’m not about to just sit back and never change anything…I wouldn’t be where I am now with my designs if I did that, but as I said…I’m at a point where I can’t produce what I do for less without ending up with what I would consider an inferior product….and no further amount of creativity can change that at the moment.
All the best!
Scott
Black Rainbow Project
I hear you. Produce the finest bag with the strongest fabrics available to meet the most taxing day-to-day demands. And this usually comes at a cost passed down from manufacturers to wholesalers to shop proprietors to eventually trickled-down to consumers.
Nothing wrong with this approach and you seem to be very talented at what you do. I checked out your designs and I’m impressed.
Yes. High-tech modern fabrics will outperform Recycled fabrics. This is a given. But the lower cost will also factor in which is a major component of the decision-making process. If people could afford it, they would all be driving German luxury cars, living in Tudor homes in snooty neighborhoods and attend the most exclusive Academic institutions.
I’m not asking you personally to make adjustments. If you’re comfortable with your designs and plan, run with it. I hope you lure savvy customers away from the big shops.
I’m just broaching a topic. What’s dismissed as expensive to one person is viewed as a long-term investment to another person. It’s a value call. This is why I’m so interested in exploring the actual cost-comparison of some the major offerings in the market so that the consumer is better equipped.
Cheers!
PS–please don’t ‘sponsor’ Fixie Riders and call them your “family”.
WOW! There are so many great thoughts being brought up. A potential answer to the price break issue is creating a buying collective of small builders. We compete with each other, true, but we can stand behind an idea like that. Who wants cheap Cobra buckles?
By far the largest cost in manufacturing for me (even working with my US veg tan leather & Cordura) is labor.
The largest cost to the consumer is often the doubling of wholesale to create a retail price. As a manufacturer, I have to be super efficient in building and carry a narrow margin to come close to competing with the labor & material costs in Asia.
–
In terms of the bag- the comment about using inexpensive lining might suggest it is somehow a cheap replacement for something else, like hand-printed pesticide-free wild fair trade Wagyu cotton. Nay. It is often durable and long lasting, sometimes VERY long lasting!
Apples to oranges here. I would never expect a high quality product to use a nylon liner. A real bicycle messenger needs a durable liner, not a pretty one.
That my .02! I love the look of this bag. What a wonderful writeup on it, Taylor. Can’t wait to get my hands on one.
And Scott, your bag looks awesome. I want to see more!
Regarding liner materials.
The most common liner fabric in most pro messenger bags is truck tarp. Part of the reason for this is because the majority of new companies that start up immediately copy their materials list from established companies like Chrome, assuming that because they are popular and successful they must have it right?
Truck tarp CAN be a very tough and waterproof fabric. I worked with the stuff for over a decade, so I have a fair bit of experience with it. The problem with it is that it begins to de-laminate or crack over time. Look inside any older messenger bag with a tarp liner and I guarantee there will be cracks across the centre of the fold.
Once those cracks are there, that area has lost most of its waterproofing.
People also seem to forget that just like any fabric there is a HUGE difference in tarp qualities.
Some tarps may look like others, but if you snip the edge they will tear straight through like paper with very little effort. The good ones don’t.
Consumers won’t see this side of things though because companies like to simply boast ‘truck tarp liner’….assuming that it’s the ultimate.
With regards to the nylon liners you mention John, I would disagree.
After years of testing and sampling I have found that one of the best materials for a pro messenger bags innermost layer is nylon. I use a 420d high count pack cloth with a PU coating on the reverse.
The reason it works so well is because it’s actually more abrasion resistant than the truck tarp, and very strong for its weight…pretty much impossible to tear if it should get nicked, it allows packages to slide in and out more easily than tarp, and its PU coating adds another layer of waterproofing.
I wouldn’t use it on its own as the liner though as the PU coating will eventually start to break down, but as a third layer it’s perfect.
I have recently moved away from tarp completely as my mid layer. Partly because of the way it cracks over time, and partly because of its stiffness, but my bags are still triple layered, with all three having waterproof coatings, and all chosen for their own individual properties.
These kind of conversations are always interesting because it’s good to see peoples opinions and reasons for why they feel a certain fabric is a good or bad choice for particular areas of a bag.
@John…Thanks for the compliment about my bag. All the pictures on the web are the original prototype…I’ve just finished tweaking the design after two years of testing. It’ll still be a while before I do any kind of proper launch, but I’m always popping up here an there. :]
What is the name of your bag company? I’d be keen to see what you do…if I haven’t already without realising?
I agree 100% about not using truck tarp. I, like many, chose to use it initially as a way to align with other cycling companies. Over time, I also realized that it has its drawbacks, and have started using 420 as well. It looks good, is durable and gives people a bit more durability than 200. I have a number of messenger bags lined with 200PU, and most of the time, its plenty. In fact, I have a first generation Timbuk2 with over 20 years and thousands of miles on it. The unlined (or maybe the PU came off) nylon is still %85 of its original condition. The Velcro loop “fuzzes out” in time, but is replaceable.
Out of curiosity, what do you use as your middle layer? My company is High Above, and I am just beginning to launch some products on my site, but have been doing 3rd party manufacturing and design. Drop me a line, I’d love to continue this conversation outside this thread! John@fromhighabove.com
Cheers!
I use top secret, illegal ninja fabric from the government….I’m afraid that’s as much as i can say at the moment. ;]
boooooo! We want to knowwwww.
I just received my Killspencer Track Bike Messanger, and I love it. Uses the exact same set of hardware (Riri and AustriAlpin), and it just feels rock solid. One of the best purchases I have made; it just manages to handle the exact amount of stuff that I carry to work on my bike perfectly. I’d love to see you do a comparison review of the two bags; you should ask Killspencer to lend you a review sample.
The issue is that now I’m way to interested in getting a Weekender from them. Which I most definitely don’t have the money for but I would hope that I would never have to buy another bag like it again.
I’d love to give a Road Test review or a comparison style review of a Killspencer product to share with the Carryology readers. Still waiting to hear back from someone their team. They sure do make some pretty looking stuff (especially dig the look of their Weekender and their Messenger/s), have yet to see one in the flesh.
Sent you an email! I’d love to help make that happen.
Just thought I’d add to the thread as I received my Barbary a week ago. It’s definitely a beast – everything is super robust, but the overall feel is much more of an old school / classic feel rather than the typical techie messenger bags.
Very comfortable to wear and did I say it’s a beast? It’s a pretty huge bag, so make sure it’s the right size for you or you can go for one of the smaller models.
Silas was also a great guy to communicate with. Hoping they come out with a backpack in the near future!
They had one in their previous collection.
http://thecarry.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Bedouin-Ottoman-Backpack.jpg
Great review! Thanks.
How is the shoulder strap in terms of adjustment? Does it have any special adjustment feature? It has a great design with that buckle(?) in it. Is that functional?
Hey Litoben,
The shoulder strap single webbing adjustment works perfectly. Loosen and tighten, simple as that. The 2″ Cobra buckle on the shoulder strap is the nicest on the planet, supports somewhere around 2,000 lbs, and is functional for removing the bag while wearing it and putting it back on.
Thanks, man!
Based on Taylor’s brilliant review and the comments here- I have just bought two Saracen bags (olive and tan)
They look amazing and I can’t wait to use them.
I notice that the Genghis is coming soon with a different strap- so I hope I made a good choice.
Keep up the good work all.
Appreciate the compliments Lotus Cowboy, but it was hard not to write a great review when you start out with such a quality product.
Send us a photo or two once you receive your two Saracens in the mail, love to see the pair of them together.
Do you follow Bedouin on facebook, instagram, or their blog? I noticed they recently posted up a photo of the new Genghis shoulder strap, among plenty other photos of interesting items/things.
Thanks for reading and dropping us a line.
Hi Taylor- I will shoot a couple of pics asap.
Yes I’ve seen their Facebook page and looks like some new shots have gone up today.
As you can imagine – I’m pretty excited and waiting for the Delivery Service to arrive.
I am planning on these two to last me a long time and then to pass one on to each of my twins in the future.
What a rad idea. They call them “legacy bags” for a reason. … At least someone did, can’t recall where I read it. I’m sure both bags will be even more desirable after the years of use and stories attached to each bag. Awesome.
Hi Taylor- bags have arrived- both ook amazing- I can’t seem to copy and past a picture here- is there a Carrology email I can send them too- be good to show them here.
Regards,
Sure thing, shoot me an email at….
Taylor (at) Carryology (dot) com
Would love to see the two Bedouins together.
Thanks- pics emailed- would be great to see them on the site for all to see.
I’m so pleased with these two.
Hey Lotus Cowboy,
Never received your email
Did you send it to Taylor (at) Carryology (dot) com?
Or just click my name to send me an email!
Hi – Yes I did.
I have just resent it (fingers crossed)
ps unable to click on your name and get email.
Wonderful and informative idea. Really need today for the new generation.please share me more information about wonderful that idea,I agree with all these efforts can be use in it.thanks..
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I can’t afford this bag, yet I lust after it. I can, however, afford to buy a $33 Cobra buckle for the main strap on my London Transport Chome messenger. Someone earlier asked about adjustment, but I’m still unclear: how does loosing and tightening with the male end of the buckle work? For example, on my Chrome bag, there’s a triangular “integrates bottle opener” piece that you lift to loosen and tighten. It’s a two-handed operation. They claim you can do one handed tightening, but it’s prohibitively difficult. So how are tightening and loosening adjustments done when the bag is buckled around your chest on this bag? How rigid is the strap material? 5 bar webbing varies in thickness, with thicker cuts feeling more like leather and thinner cuts sliding much easier in a buckle at the expense of twisting and folding within the buckle easier
Great question and great plan, Chromeo.
A few things.
I’ve found a few great sites to buy Cobra buckles on the retail side. One is here below…
http://www.paragear.com/templates/base_template.asp?group=34#H5048
(about the same price as you listed)
I’m sure there are many more sites out there, but I’ve had good luck with this one.
Some things to consider when using the Cobras. You can get them with adjustment or fixed on both sides (male and or female). For example, you could get a 1″ fixed female and fixed male buckle (so no adjustment at all). Or you could do a dual adjustment, so they both can be. Or just one side or the other. Additionally, another little known fact about Cobras, you can use a 2″ female with a 1″ male, or the opposite. All of their buckles work interchangeably with all of their buckle sizes. 1.5″ female + 1″ male, 2″ male + 1″ female, 1.5″ male + 1″ female. You get the idea. Amazing feature.
Completely true about the webbing thickness affecting the ease of adjustment in the buckle. Unfortunately there isn’t an exact answer here, as different webbing suppliers vary in thickness. The material itself can also change how well the webbing slips through or grabs onto the buckle (polyester vs nylon). Best bet is to buy the buckle and experiment with the webbing, slipping it through the Cobra’s adjuster side.
Using a Cobra buckle, I don’t think you’ll have any issue with tightening or loosening your strap on your Chrome bag. Take your bag to a local sewing service to have them do it properly, so it will last a lifetime. In Austin, TX we have a shop called Bluebonnet Cut & Sew (http://www.bluebonnetcutsew.com/index.html). If you can find a spot like this near you, you can bring in your bag and they’ll do it right there on the spot for a minimal fee. Otherwise, a talented professional seamstress could add the buckle in for you, no problem. Your Aunt’s sewing machine MIGHT work, but the issue is that you may need to sew through multiple layers of materials. The more materials and the thicker they are, the heavier duty the machine needs to be. So try to avoid a consumer-grade machine with wimpy cotton thread.
Would you mind posting your results up here when you succeed with your mission? We’ll happily add it up on our facebook page, or maybe do another article on “bag mods”, etc.
Here is a photo of the Triple Aught Design Fast Pack Litespeed I Road Tested a while back.
http://i.imgur.com/OMpR7.jpg
I took it to Bluebonnet Cut & Sew, and had them permanently attach 4 buckles to the pack (there are 8 buckles total, but only 4 required sewing to attach them). Cost me $30 since I just walked in unannounced. Love those Cobras.
Haha, Taaaayylloorrrr!!!!!!
That TAD with Cobras is hardcore!
Hey Taylor, do you think a good sewing service could pull that off on a bag with really tight stitching? I’m thinking about replacing the front buckle of my rambler with a big cobra!
Hey Ed,
Mission Workshop could probably do it up for you, but they might take a while (I know they’re usually busy, but happy to help). Might be worth a shot, but I can’t guarantee it or speak for them.
I assume you’d be OK with shipping the pack off to a service so they could do it?
If you search around locally, you may just be able to find something. Check your Yellowpages. In Austin, the best place (actually a very small factory in a sense, as they make small production runs of products for local businesses, 500 promotional bags, etc) is called Bluebonnet Cut & Sew. I wish I knew a better way to define them to tell you how to search for something similar. “Cut & Sew”, or “industrial sewing services”, maybe.
I’d say you’d want something a little more heavy duty than a tailor or a seamstress. But thats not saying one couldn’t do it. Just ask them if they have an industrial machine, or if they can do heavy duty box stitches through multiple layers of fabric.
I’ll do it! Send me an email, I am certain you will find my skills up to the task. I repaired pack for a spell and after a zillion of them, I could Professionally update your rig.
JC
Nice! Hit up JC. He’s the man. Definitely knows what he’s doing, and he’ll do it right, so its strong as Hell.
I would add to Taylor’s advice by saying that if you pass your webbing over a 2″ D ring before exiting the lower adjustable side of the buckle it will both tighten and loosen more easily. Pull the strap end as normal to tighten, then pull on the 2″ D ring to loosen.
It’s a trick which has been used on messenger work bags for a few years now and makes adjustment much easier.
@B.R.P. — do you have any photos so you can show me what you mean? I’m having a hard time picturing this.
@Taylor — thanks for the advice. If I do the modifications, I’ll absolutely share them. I’m actually in the process of having a bag custom made that is a mini-messenger/bandolier that I haven’t really seen anyone make yet. It’s meant to be lightweight and compact, a place for just the essential EDC items i.e. wallet/keys/cellphone/flashlight. The Chrome Victor comes close but isn’t quite what I have in mind. For my custom bag, I’ll use Cobra buckles where it makes sense to (maybe a 1.75″ on the shoulder strap and a 1″ for the flap enclosure).
At the risk of reviving a dormant thread, one thing I’ve noticed as a common omission in reviews on Carryology — how much does it weigh?
I retired my Saddleback briefcase because it weighs 7lb empty; too heavy for every-day carry unless it’s empty (in which case, why bother with a bag that size?).
I’m also curious how well the Barbary does on a motorcycle, with no chest strap. Anyone tried it?
Hey Richard,
Thanks for the message, man.
Good question on the weight. For me, the Barbary has never been that heavy, seems pretty light for its large size. Maybe 3 lbs? I’ll find a way to weigh it next time I head to the post office, as I don’t have a scale at home.
As far as motorcycle carry. The owner of Bedouin, Silas, rode his motorcycle around India for a two year trip, with his Barbary slung over his shoulder every day of the trek. He said it only became more and more comfortable through use. A photo of his heavily worn Barbary is below…
http://www.carryology.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Bedouin-Barbary-Messenger-Review-21.jpg
Good call on the weight, I’ll see about getting that taken care of soon.
Thanks, Taylor. Much appreciated!
Taylor: any update on this?
Silas (or Taylor!): any word when the olive will be back in stock?
Hey Richard,
Did you shoot Silas an email?
@ JC
Thanks for the offer! (I couldn’t find a “reply” button under your comment) Actually, I’m using the bag daily in school as of right now, and I’d be happy to send it off maybe next month or in December at the latest. Before I do, I’ll let you know by contacting you through your site, and we’ll go from there.
And judging from your experiences, are the xl release clips on the cobra buckles worth it? It isn’t really that much of a biggie but I nitpick over things.
If you have sausage fingers, I’d do it, otherwise- I like the sleekness of the 11mm, regular ones more, matte black over shiny as well (IMHO).
Keep in touch, my wait list is short now, but likely will not be just before the holidays!
Good point, I think I’ll take your suggestion regarding the release clips. Austrialpin has informed me that colored finishes need to have a minimum order ct. of 500.
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