Here’s one from one of our favorite secret brands, Black Rainbow Project, based out of the UK. We have some big plans for more in-depth coverage on Scott (founder, owner, cyclist, and all around awesome dude) and Black Rainbow Project, including a detailed introduction to the products, brand, and philosophy… as well as a Road Test of one of the bombproof products!
Simply put, I strongly believe Scott is putting out some of the highest level carry products in the world, regarding construction, materials, hardware, design, innovation, and his absolute refusal to compromise quality for any reason. We’ll jump into that all later though. (FYI, there are about one dozen individual pieces of AustriAlpin hardware on the BRP “Red” messenger shown above, including those amazing Cobra buckles, every single one which has a specific thought-out purpose and never used just for looks). For now, dig in…
Scott (BRP): Hey man…let’s do this five minute thing first. Although you know what I’m like…condensing my opinions isn’t my strong point! :]
(above, 3/4 view of BRP Red Messenger bag)
1 – What key insights drive your stuff?
Passion, desire, and pride. Despite making bags for years, it was only fairly recently that I realized just how passionate I was about it. I am driven by a desire to make things work as well as they can for the task in hand, starting with each individual part, and then figuring out a way to make them all work in unison. Pride also plays a big part in what I do. I’m proud of the fact that I do things my own way regardless of what the current trends are. I would rather shut up shop than feel like I’m compromising simply to make more money or meet market demands.
(above, a rare look inside the BRP “Bagcave” as Scott has named it, located around/close to/in/near/deep underneath the streets of Leicester, UK… notice how nearly every square inch has been painted black… he also handmade his own cutting and workshop tables to his own specs )
2 – Who else is doing rad things in the world of carry? And why do you think they’re important…
I was thinking about this question for a long time and I’m afraid I have to pass on it….Only joking! :]
Anybody who thinks there is nobody else doing great things in the carry world needs to open their window a little wider and look around.
Mission Workshop deserves a special mention simply for opening so many peoples eyes to the world of carry. They are really pushing things forward from a materials and design standpoint. I have huge respect for the fact that they don’t just sit on their arses and watch their current products sell…they continue to design, improve, and innovate.
Killspencer deserves a mention for showing true passion, and thinking about their brand as a whole. Their first promo video was perfect! Companies like Mystery Ranch are doing great things with new fabric technology too.
I’d also like to give a mention to all the tiny indy bag companies out there…most of which cater to the messenger bag/cycling market. They’re all important because it will often be us little guys that are driving innovation, ready for the big guys to come along and milk those ideas for all they’re worth. The final mention needs to go to PAC bags…they developed pretty much every worthwhile feature used on any proper messenger work bag, and they deserve huge credit for that.
(above, several interior panels waiting to get made into BRP Red Messenger bags)
3- Are there any things other brands do that you think are great or could be improved?
Innovation and a willingness to try new things are what separates the best from the rest. The brands I mentioned all fit that bill. Another thing Mission Workshop do well is in the marketing of their products…they know how to convince people that they NEED them.
I do however think that there is room for improvement from some companies out there. The flipside to all these small, indy bag makers cropping up is the fact that many of them don’t come from sewing backgrounds, which sometimes leads to some fairly poor quality sewing. I think I would just like to see more care and attention paid to the quality of the construction. We all make mistakes, but the important thing is to admit it and correct it if you know something could be done better.
(above, BRP key clips)
4- Whats next for you guys?
Well having just spent the last 8 months building a whole new workshop from scratch after relocating the business I’m currently trying to work through my backlog of orders.
Beyond that though I’m going to be working hard on developing the rest of my product range. I just finished a slight redesign of my messenger work bag and am very happy with it, so the next priority is to start work on the backpack. I’ve had the ideas going around in my head for over two years now and am desperate to start work on the prototype. It’s difficult being such a tiny company to find time to do all the sewing of current products and still find time to work on the forthcoming ones, but there are some great things on the horizon.
5 – What do you carry daily? and how?
Unfortunately since moving back to my hometown, I hardly need to carry anything. I was almost always cycling everywhere in London, so prior to the move I always had either my Violet (shown above) or Indigo hip pouch on one of my own belts. This would contain my phone, cards, money, AtoZ, tools, tube, pump, D-lock etc. Bag wise it was always Red (below), my huge messenger bag. Even if i was hardly carrying anything I still used it…as much for testing purposes as anything else. If the backpack design turns out how I hope though it may well take the place of my messenger as my main bag. I guess we’ll need to see how the prototyping goes. :]
Taylor Welden
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Now that is seriously sexy stuff.
Great preview – can’t wait to see the full review of the “Red” Bag in due course.
Scott- keep at it- I love your commitment and drive for absolute quality and design.
It’s surprising to me that more companies don’t cushion their messenger bags but I like the approach of this company.
What is the price for that messenger bag?
I’m really curious to hear how $90 worth of Cobra hardware on the flap (I see three attached, not including the strap) meets a “specific thought-out purpose.”
Don’t get me wrong, Scott. I love your work and I applaud your attention to detail, but no one’s explained to me why Cobra buckles need to be on bags (besides they’re classy and sexy – I agree with that!).
I wouldn’t include any feature or piece of hardware on my bags that didn’t meet a specific thought-out purpose.
The four buckles on the flap are there for specific reasons too. The two in the middle are the main flap strap buckles which secure the flap when carrying large, or heavy loads. These are essential, because if a large package is being carried outside of the main compartment, then the flap velcro is unusable. depending on the size and weight of the load, this can put huge stress on those two buckles.
The two buckles either side of them are for securing the x-strap. As the straps are all completely reversible, it’s necessary to have one either side.
Every other part of the bag is also there for a specific reason, but i could honestly fill a whole page explaining every part and it’s specific purpose.
Regarding the use of cobra buckles….Almost every courier I have met has at some point broken buckles on their work bags and ha to bodge them or just lose the feature they were meant for…more often than not It’s through them being crushed when somebody has stepped on them accidentally. I also know of a few that have had their main strap buckles burst open while riding due to the weight of the load…this can be fatal when riding in a busy city.
I spent months trying to find what I considered to be an unbreakable, and generally higher quality alternative. I have found nothing better than cobra buckles on the market.
To replace a buckle on the majority of bags requires a lot of dismantling, which just isn’t practical.
My goal was to start with what I considered to be the most hardcore materials an hardwear available.
I’m not claiming my bags are for everyone, maybe you personally don’t need that amount of strength…but for those who feel they do, I’m presenting them with that option.
I hope this answers your questions?
@D. The price for the RED messenger is £350 GBP.
Thanks for the follow up.
350 Pounds converts to $563 and change.
I like the style and the features but its more than I’m willing to spend on a messenger bag.
I understand completely.
Pricing is a difficult area for me. I have to pay in UK pounds for materials, hardwear, import, duty…and then my day to day living costs are also in UK pounds…but unfortunately the UK pound is stronger than most currencies, so once the conversion is made it becomes a very high figure.
The high cost of my raw materials and hardwear, coupled with the amount of time it takes me to make each bag means that even at this price, my profits are low…I make everything myself by hand, I’m about as small a business as you can get, but as I’ve always said, It’s never been about profit for me with these bags. I just want to make the best bags I feel I can.
I have a friend who swears by his high-end McIntosh Labs audio equipment. His amp retails for about $20,000.
To me this seems a little absurd but the quality and warmth is something few systems can match if you’re really into quality analog music.
I’m sure hard core Courier Pros would appreciate your design and materials. Excuse my French but I f’n love your bag but as you know, guys like me already have a half a dozen bags in the closet. The price is just way beyond my reach.
Good work though.
I’m stuck in that awkward part of the marketplace where I make bags that serve a specific purpose beyond the aesthetic…and I make them for working people.
If I were making bags for the fashion/lifestyle market, where they can get away with charging a thousand dollars for a bag which costs fifty dollars to make, without anybody batting an eyelid, life would be so much easier. :]
That is what is tough about purchasing UK products at the moment. The conversion rate is just at a historical high (vs the USA and other EU countries). Its not that he’s charging “$550+”. Figure that he’s actually charging “$350″. 1 GBP still buys a Coca Cola, where $1 buys the same Coca Cola. For the hardware and the materials alone, that is a bargain. Blame the governments for the inflation.
Anyway, this is why Black Rainbow Project is amazing…
“I just want to make the best bags I feel I can.”
I blame the privately-controlled, privately-owned Central Banks for inflation.
Scott,
I’m definitely not questioning the use of buckles on bag flaps. I consider them standard issue. As for Cobra? I guess it makes sense to guarantee you’ve got the hardest hardware out there from a quality perspective.
My bewilderment regarding the use of Cobra buckles on flaps stems more from the fact that they’re typically load-bearing buckles, and therefore not specifically needed on a flap. Even with heavy, oversized loads (I’ve carried three computer towers and two laptops in my girl.bike.dog bag before), it seems like the stress point on a bag is usually on the fabric at the base of the bag, not the buckle. So I see people using them at non-load bearing points on a bag and wonder why.
But I agree they’re also the highest quality buckle on the market, and stylish to boot. If you want quality who cares about load stress, right?
Bottom line: I get it now. It’s about durability. Who knows, maybe I’ll make a bag with them on the flap sometime and eat my words anyway. Thanks for the answer.
-TBC
There is a big difference though between carrying the odd heavy load once in a blue moon, and using the bag for ten hours a day, 5 days a week, all year round, in all weathers.
I don’t think many people can understand the amount of abuse a working couriers bag receives. :]
If the stitching and fabrics are top quality, a small plastic buckle will usually crack first.
“If the stitching and fabrics are top quality, a small plastic buckle will usually crack first.”
Excuse my ignorance on this but how much of a concern is this?
Small plastic buckles are inexpensive. I imagine Pro Couriers would have a few spare buckles in their bags much the way urban cyclists carry extra tubes and tools.
Does the peace of mind in having a top shelf buckle justify the extra cost if it just takes a few minutes to attach new cheap plastic buckle?
The problem is that the female half of the buckle on most bags is non replaceable as it’s permanently attached…and in some cases the male half is too.
The concern for me is if a buckle should fail while riding on busy roads, carrying a heavy load.
Obviously we make our own minds up about how much of a concern this is.
“I don’t think many people can understand the amount of abuse a working couriers bag receives. :]
If the stitching and fabrics are top quality, a small plastic buckle will usually crack first.” He is 100% right here.. I have had so many plastic buckles crack snap and pop open because of the weight of some of the packages i have carried. I have carried 3 boxes of A4 paper in my BRP.. No probs whatsoever!!
These cobra buckles are heavy compared to quality plastic hardwear, no way you would need them in a messenger bags like this one…Off course it’s jus for looks. I have a custom roll top backpack being made (Minneapolis Trash Messenger Bags) and i send two 2′ Cobra buckles to the maker for him to use in my bag, but i know it’s just to satify my need for hy-tec equipement, i will not going to do rapel with the bag… But i could…
Of course you’re entitled to your own opinion related to the use of the buckles Valter, but I can tell you 100% that the cobras weren’t chosen for their looks, and that I would still be using them even if they were the ugliest buckles in the world.
If you’d seen how much time and effort went into finding the best materials and hardwear for these bags you might understand more.
I never have, and never would choose something for looks over performance. Every part of the bag was designed for function first, and it’s not until I was 100% happy with the function that I turned any attention to the aesthetics.
Regarding weight, yes they are heavier, and I have no problem saying that my bags are some of the heaviest on the market, because light weight wasn’t my goal either.
Every customer using my bags has always said that the weight doesn’t bother them in the slightest because the bag is so comfortable, and carries their loads so well.
It comes down to personal opinion whether or not you think a bag NEEDS these buckles…and if you don’t then it’s fine, there are plenty of great bags out there which will meet your needs, but a person can only speak for themselves, and if you’re fed up of breaking buckles, like many of the people that have come to me, then I’m offering another option.
I have one customer who Is a working messenger, and he has gone through so many bags from so many companies…his most recent, from a very reputable company just started to come apart after just 4 months…that is exactly what I try and avoid with my own products.
But as I said, they’re not for everyone, and if you think they’re all about looks, or that the buckles aren’t necessary, then they’re not the bags for you.
Hey, do not get me wrong here. Of course it’t just my opinion… I respect your work and find the bag very pleasing, I can see me buying something like this or even a bag from you. That said, I am a designer and like to research new materials and hardwear, But I have now, enough experience with bags (military, caving, commuting every day) to know that you will never need Cobra buckles on a messenger bag of every kind, it’s just good marketing, if you want to cary loads you choose something with two straps, the messenger bag is just to have the commodity to access the bag without removing it. I have never saw a good Fastex buckle brake (my experience/opinion) even in caving. Anyway, as with all the good deskign objects no one buys one just for funtion, the form and emotion are also important, i find that the Cobra buckles fit the bag very nicely and if your selling a kind of high end product, woo cares about the 90$ on buckles.
I guess we just have different experience, because I’ve seen several broken plastic buckles from the two major buckle companies in that field. I once had an email from a customer who refused to buy any more bags with plastic buckles because he’d broken several.
Unfortunately two strap bags won’t make a plastic buckle any stronger. If it gets crushed it will still break, If it gets too cold during winter, it will still be more brittle and can still break, if a strap has enough load on it it can still break…and as I mentioned before, the majority of bags have these buckles permanently attached, making repair a big problem.
The Cobras eliminate all those possibilities for me. It has nothing to do with marketing, looks, image, or cool factor for me, and never has. It’s purely about prolonging the life of my bags as much as possible…which is also the case with my fabrics, and the nature of my design.
There is nothing more frustrating with bags than a buckle that is broken when the rest of the bag is still completely fine.
Again…it comes down to personal preference as to how important longevity is to the individual.
Nobody is in a position to say that anybody else will never need buckles like these on a messenger bag, because those people who HAVE broken buckles on other bags in the past may well disagree.
Metal hardwear is commonplace on many of the top camera bags for the same reason…they on’t want the risk of a plastic buckle breaking and potentially damaging the bag contents. Out of all the metal an plastic buckles I’ve tried, the Cobras were head an shoulders above the rest in quality an performance.
As with most things in life though it’s each to their own. Options are always a good thing. :]
I guess we just have different experience. Good work, good luck.
Working within the bag design industry for several years now, I can’t count how many broken plastic buckles I’ve encountered. Easily hundreds. From daily business briefs to outdoor adventure packs. This is especially difficult when a company stands behind their products with a warranty, because they have to honor returns. At one of my old fulltime positions, I remember digging through hundreds of returned camera bags, otherwise absolutely perfect and new, just with one broken buckle. Instantly they went to the garbage room, piled up to never see daylight again. All because of a buckle. Of course, plastic buckles work great in some/most cases, for some/most people. But these bags aren’t for “most” people. The argument here is that “a Honda can also get me from A to B, why would I need an Abraham’s tank?”. Depends on the user and their intended uses. If rather have a tank over a Honda if I were driving through a battlefield on a daily basis. Vanilla tastes good, but so does scorpion whiskey.
Hey!
its just tacticool like goruck stuff. come on people, the bag is VERY nice it’s undeniable, and if you think you will destroy quality resilient plastic buckles faster than de cordura or ballistic nylon of the bottom than go for it, but do not exagerate on the comparisons (honda vs abrahams tank?) i have a Domke f-802 for photography gear and yes it has metal mil spec buckles and yes they will outlast me, but also, they will outlast the cotton canvas body of the bag… And this is true for all the materials. I think that overbuilt equipement is cool and reassuring, dont get me wrong, i buy that kind of stuff too, with metal mil-spec stuff and non woven dyneema with sailcloth trim, and x-pac with trillions of denier, thinking: next time i go to Iraq this is what I bring… But you now, I live in the city… So whats left is the enjoyment of having something nice.
Why not we all live in bunckers and exchange our mobile phones for satellite phones, and start to wear work boots with steel toe to the mall, oh! and Cordura/kevlar and carbon fibre motorcycle jumpsuit For sleaping (safety and durability first!) and start buy all kind of overbuilt stuff just because its a war out there in the city these days; the other day at starbucks my coffee tried to stab me, if it weren’t my titanium coffee mug that I always carry with me, I would not be here having this nice conversation with you guys
So you’re saying you like Hondas.
And that because you only need a Honda, no one else requires/needs/wants anything better?
Volvos are cool. So are Triumph motorcycles. Some motorcycles can only do 100mph. Some can do 200+ mph. Who needs to go 200mph when you can go 100mph? Those who want to.
It depends on the person, their use, their taste, their budget, and much more.
Scott makes his bags for professional bike messengers. There are few professions which are more abusive.
I don’t understand what the gripe is. Whether they (Cobra) are there for looks or function is irrelevant. They are there. It is his design it was his decision. Unless you tapped into his brain all your assumptions about his thought process are simply assumptions. This is the same dumb argument against Macs and iPhones… what one person deems an accessory is for another a necessity.
Preach it, Marcos!
Absolutely right.
Some reasons not to use high-quality (high price) components: Cost. Convenience. Appearance.
Some reasons to use high-quality (high price) components: durability. appearance. professional standards. contract requirements.
The bottom line is that If Cobra buckles are the most durable, high-quality buckles on the market, and the person making the bags has decided that durability and quality are the most important aspects of the bag’s design (over price, or appearance, or anything else) – then it makes sense to use the buckles.
You can argue all day that they’re not necessary (a position I took before this conversation!) – but if it’s more important to have the buckles survive than it is to shave $90 off the price of the bag, that’s a design decision.
Scott’s decided that quality and durability are the most important things to him when creating his bag. In using Cobra buckles he has met his criteria. As far as I’m concerned that is the end of the story.
Then again, if you’re gonna put your product out there, you’re gonna get comments. That’s why a comment section exists. So it makes sense to have people go “Wow. I don’t think that’s worth it!”, but really you’re just making an external comment on a design process that has already been locked in. You are proving that you are not the customer for these bags.
Would I spend that much on a bag? Quite possible. Would most people? Probably not. Doesn’t make the design WRONG, just wrong for those people.
Scott, thanks for engaging with us on this. I think it’s a valuable conversation about priorities in design and the importance of finding products that fit your personal criteria for what aspects are necessary and which aren’t.
I never said that the use of Cobras on the bag is a wrong design, I have a bag with cobras being made for me. Please read my comments. I just expressed my opinion, maybe i have to put a link to the definition of opinion. I find the comments a litle bit agressive, we are all adults? I woud not expected so many fanboys. I just find a litle sad that when my opinion was expressed here about the buckles, people instead of defending the use of 90$ of buckles with a decent serious and respectful example (your a Honda? What is that? Respect please) started to be arrongant. As I said, I like the bag and actually i’m very much the target customer for that kind of bags because i have the money for it, i’m willing to spend that kind of money on bags and i’m not a pro messenger so will not trash my bags on the streets. In my opinion (have to enphasize that, because people get angry) I find that the use of the cobra buckles are not a necessity on messenger bags and yes I find that it’s just hype like other brands do. It’s not wrong to overbuild stuff but I expect a litle honesty from people in accepting that they are niche markets like this one where people buy stuff that are built like tank just because it’s reassuring and cool conversation starter, occasionally you’ll get to experience the benefits of having more rugged than normal buckles on you bag but 99% of the tyme its just cool.
My comment wasn’t directed to anyone in particular. Mostly I was just working that stuff out for myself.
I would kindly suggest that the comments that upset you were most likely not meant to be disrespectful or insulting. We’re all friends here! Even if (especially if) we disagree on stuff!
I just realized now that you are from “the bag collector” site that I watch every day, I like and respect what you are doing, therefore I would like to express my apologies if I said something less nice to you on any comment here.
No problem. You didn’t say anything that offended me. Online conversations are easily taken out of context anyhow.
It’s obvious everyone here cares a great deal about the craft of bag making, otherwise we wouldn’t be arguing over buckles – a feature most bag-wearers don’t pay a second thought to!
I think you’ve just hit your own nail on the head here Valter….If you know you’re not the kind of person to trash your bag on the streets then you’re not going to see a need for buckles like this beyond the mere aesthetic….but if you WERE the kin of person using the bag for ten hours a day, all year round, then you might see it differently?
I hope you haven’t found any of my comments aggressive or patronizing? I’m certainly not meaning to be. I’m simply defending my own reasons for why my bags are the way they are.
If somebody is saying things like “Of course it’s just for looks” when I know that isn’t true, I tend to want to defend myself. :]
It’s all good with me. I enjoy a good discussion. I’m passionate about what I do. :]
I’m not familiar with the wages of Pro Couriers but I was under the impression that these guys make a very poor living given the diminishing need for this type of service in the age of PDF files.
The really good Couriers who’ve been in business for a very long time and have developed great reputations seem to benefit from sponsorship from the likes of Chrome, Mission Workshop and other designers.
So I guess I’m a bit perplexed by some of the comments. If this bag is intended for Pro Couriers and some practically live in squalor while others get freebies, is it fair to assume that the only people who would drop the money for something like this are posers, Hipsters and Fake Messengers?
I think the percentages of people who truly appreciate the design of this bag are bloggers, other designers and the few who obsessed about details.
It’s true that couriers are struggling these days…the glory days are long gone. Because of this I have always tried my best to help working couriers as much as possible if they want one of my bags. As I have mentioned before…I’m not in this game for the money…If I was I would also use plastic buckles and more simple designs, and I would knock bags out left right and center, but money isn’t everything to me.
I am happier making the best bags I can and seeing the people who understand why I make them this way using them…Hopefully for a long time to come.
I have already set my price as low as I can. If I were to use the correct pricing methods they would need to be at least twice this price.
@Valter….you still don’t seem to realize that your experiences aren’t the same as everyone.
As Taylor has also pointed out, the buckles are usually one of the first parts to go on most bags.
There would be no point in me using plastic buckles when the rest of my materials and construction are designed to last as long as possible.
By using these buckles I know I will NEVER have to worry about them breaking, and having one less thing to worry about is a big plus for me.
You can’t really compare something like a small caving backpack with a 50ltr messenger work bag and say that the caving bag is carrying the same weight and receiving the same kind of abuse.
Likewise, many military bags even, despite what people may think are only single skin, or use very thin liners…this wouldn’t be suitable for long term messenger work either.
Unless you’re comparing like for like it’s pointless.
The main reason so many companies are still using plastic hardwear and fairly simple designs and materials is profit…plain and simple…not because they’re the best for the job. There’s nothing wrong with that approach if profit is the main goal, but mine isn’t…and I have no problem with that. :]
Out of interest, do you have direct experience in designing and manufacturing bags for working messengers?
Caving is far more exigent on bags (that are not small) than courier work, you have to suspend the bag to a cord and drag it behind you through water, sand, rocks and occasionally acid bat guano. I have also experience with messenger service (food delivery). When you say that using plastic hardwear it’s just for profit you are not being very ethical in regard to you business colegues that also use top materials like cordura, ballistic nylon, dyneema, x-pac, ykk, lenzip or riri zippers and yes, plastic buckles on bags made locally, to name a few: Tom Bihn, Tough Traveler, Mei Bags, McHale Bags, Cilo Gear, High Above bags, Draw Limited and Levrier on the UK and many small local production messenger bag manufacturers in the world that like you also take pride in their work. This conversation is going nowhere since we all have opinions, and from my part I have already my share of no so productive talk with some arrogant people. We all like bags and this is why we are here.
So, I would like to felicitate you for your beautiful work even if it falls a little bit under the luxury side for messenger work, and may you have great success
Mea culpa.
I realized that saying “of course it’s just for looks ” was not nice, and for that accept my sincere apologies.
I’m not meaning to belittle the work of my fellow bagmakers, I know there are many passionate people in this business, but it’s true that there are a large number of companies, especially the bigger ones that need to use plastic hardwear in order to meet certain price points. This just wouldn’t be possible with cobra buckles.
Another reason which relates more to many companies is weight. This is usually a major concern to the backpacking community.
The last thing I want to do though is anger people in the same business as me, so I too am going to leave the conversation now before I upset anybody. My apologies to any other bag makers if my comments offended you in any way. Anybody that is designing an making bags with passion an pride has my respect, no matter what materials and hardwear they choose to use. :]
“there are a large number of companies, especially the bigger ones that need to use plastic hardwear in order to meet certain price points. This just wouldn’t be possible with cobra buckles”
Your right, no way large main stream companies would use Cobra buckles, maybe Austri Alpine would drop the price on buckles if large companies buy them on great quantity, the same happened with other materials/hardware.
look forward to see your bags in action.
Now that things have calmed down a little, I’d like to apologize for any missing letters in my comments….It’s not my spelling I assure you….It’s my ancient laptop with its many broken keys!
Maybe if I were spending less on my bags I could afford a new one? :]
Nice bag but you’re going after the wrong market. Couriers don’t have the money to splurge on something as beautiful as your bag. Go after the high-end market.
If you lack the fund to promote your brand, not a problem. Send out a few of your bags to film stars, musicians and pro athletes. They’ll use it and eventually be spotted carrying it. Everyone will ask “where can I find such a cool bag?”.
Film Stars: James Franco, James McAvoy, Carey Mulligan, Emma Watson, Daniel Craig,
Musicians: Thom Yorke, David Gilmour, Matthew Bellamy, etc.
Pro Athletes: that psycho who plays for Team Italy–Mario Balotelli, Tom Brady, Derek Jeter, Patrick Lane, Steve Nash, etc.
Luckily I’m less concerned about going after particular markets. :]
My goal is simply to make the best bags I can for a certain use. As I said earlier, If a working courier wants one of my bags I will always try my best to help them get one somehow.
It’s not finding customers that has been a problem, it’s being able to make enough products to meet the demand. :]
Well said!
Been a big follower of Scott, since day 1, always bought stuff off him, and the quality just gets better and better.
He believes strongly in what he does.
Keep it up buddy.
I know there is a deep conversation going on here but holy crap, a BRP backpack!?!? Seriously?????
Sign me up now…….I want one……
Same here.
BRP Backpack- count me in- and if you need a tester who live a little over an hour from you and really test bags to their limits- I’m your man.
ps- will it have Cobras too?
Thought I would add my 2 cents.
First off – it’s thanks to Scott that I got into making bags – I wanted one of his bags years ago but couldn’t afford one and thought, hell it can’t be *that* hard to make something similar can it…. well yes, yes it is actually! Making one yourself also won’t work out much cheaper if you do it properly
I will back Scott up and say that standard plastic buckles are a relative weak point at this level – I think most people don’t see this as they don’t realise how engineered/reinforced the rest of the bag structure tends to be, it’s difficult to do much to a plastic buckle to improve it’s strength but you can do a lot of work (mostly unseen) to design out weak points.
I chose to go down the path of field/user replaceable buckles, as Scott is correct when he says that 99% of bags it is near impossible to replace the female buckle without significant work. For me this decision was in part cost, in part weight and part down to the modular/movable nature that QASM buckles allow.
Dan
I’m all for metal buckles on a pro courier bag. Having worked as a courier myself, i’ve broken many a plastic buckle, even the high end ones from ITW. If you’re relying on your pack for daily work use it’s so frustrating when these things go wrong. And as Scott mentioned, these components are frequently sewn in, so you can’t make a repair while you’re on the road.
I found that my chunky, rigid soles on my riding shoes were frequently the culprit as there was no give from them if you were to stand on a buckle, and usually by the time you realised you’d done it it was too late.
Nice work Scott, awesome bags.
It’s a pretty cool bag but the price just kills it for me. No amount of justification for this part or that fabric would convince me that $563 is worth it. I appreciate quality and durability but to suggest that its impossible to construct without pricey buckles is absurd.
If my Bailey Works Super Pro were to fall apart today, the owner of the company would offer to stitch it back together. And this comes at a fraction of the price.
I like this site because it exposes new designs and bags. However, I fault the bloggers for being “Fan Boys” instead of objective evaluators of products based on a confluence of fabrics, design, parts, function and PRICE.
Cool bag, I think. But please don’t insult the intelligence of readers by postulating that Pro Couriers demand the highest grade parts for their low wage jobs. It’s untenable.
By this line of thinking… then soldiers don’t need anything more than a polyester school bag for their duties for their low wage jobs? I disagree.
Again, the $500+ tag is because of the currency exchange, not the actual price.
Its great to see one brand that isn’t concerned with costs, whatsoever, in order to deliver the highest quality product that they can possibly make. Clearly, BRP products are not for you. They’re not for a large percent of the people, and that is fine. The point is, for those who see the amazing quality here, they will pay for it.
Forgive this reference, this came on the radio while I was working the other day, and I paid attention to the content…
The finest samurai swords made today costs thousands and thousands of dollars. They’re made by hand, by an expert craftsman, who has been making them that way for many years. They don’t skip a single detail, even down to the THREAD that wraps the handles.
“Why don’t they just save $100 and use nylon thread there? Cmon. I want the best, but can’t justify that extra $100.”
No way. The sword maker’s absolute LAST thought it how much this will cost someone. It costs exactly how much it costs.
Especially, lets get down to the real point here, there aren’t samurai warriors anymore. This $20K+ (after conversion from Japanese Yen) sword won’t be used as it is intended.
But you’re knocking the craftsman and their honor for spending the extra time, energy, craft, and razor sharp focus, creating the best possible product they possibly know how to, putting their soul into it? As well as knocking the “fan boys”, people who recognize and respect this high level attention to detail?
I believe the person who should be criticized is the accuser, the one who is NOT breaking their back and making these products with their own hands for a living.
1. The Military-Industrial Complex eats up more than its fair share of the tax pie so I don’t think the Pentagon is concerned with cost-saving strategies and efficiency.
2. Master Sushi Chefs at highly-rated restaurants earn enough money to justify the investment in well-crafted knives–assuming these little shops have side businesses catered for the food industry.
3. It’s a bag. A Messenger Bag. It’s not a high-end audio equipment, Swiss Watch, Italian Suit, Teutonic Car, English Tudor or a Rivendell Frame. Could I do it? No. I can buy one by making the most use out of our inflated currency to give me the most value for my day-to-day needs. And based on what I see with my finite experience, I think its way overpriced for what it is–a Messenger Bag supposedly designed for Pro Couriers but suspiciously priced for Fake Messengers.
“It’s a bag. A Messenger Bag. It’s not a high-end audio equipment, Swiss Watch, Italian Suit, Teutonic Car, English Tudor or a Rivendell Frame.”
And that is where our opinions differ. I design bags for a living. It is literally my single source of income to provide for my life. If I don’t take these products seriously, why do I expect someone to buy them? Even the bags that I design to be sold at $35.00 each, I take them seriously, as I want them to be used and appreciated.
Sure, its a bag. But someone has got to make the best of anything in the world. Why not try to make the best bag?
It is over priced for you because it is out of your budget or out of your realm of appreciation. Either one is fine. It is out of my budget as well. But so are Veyrons and castles in Europe, and they’re incredible. I still appreciate them, and lust for them. Plus, I’m not a race car driver or a King.
Also, Scott isn’t using 24kt gold thread. He isn’t using white gold plated hardware. Or relying on fashion to sell his products.
He’s putting the absolute best hardware and best fabric mixed with the highest level of craftsmanship he can possibly put into it.
I certainly won’t criticize anyone for doing the best they possibly can.
What if we looked at all fine hand-crafted Swiss watches as “just a watch”? Its just a device that tells TIME. Why do they need to use platinum? Gold? Even silver? They don’t need a chronograph. Some current watches are influenced by fighter jet pilot’s wristwatches, but 99% of people who buy them today aren’t pilots, so why do they have to be so precise, so “handmade”? Why do they need to use a hand forged clasp, when velcro would work just fine?
If we looked at everything in such a narrow, negative, and critical view, there would be no innovation in any single product on Earth.
Scott doesn’t have a marketing budget or a marketing team, as I assume you understand. He is just a guy, who from what I can take from our conversations, is focuses on a few things…
Innovation, passion, materials, hardware, craftsmanship, and quality. If those qualities are up for debate, something is wrong.
You’re saying that… ICON 4×4 vehicles are ridiculous. People are never going to take them off road. And because you can’t afford them, they shouldn’t make them. And people who can afford them or that even appreciate them are stupid posers. You’re right, the large amount of people won’t take them off road, but does that make them stupid? No. They’re handmade, beautiful pieces of machinery.
I assume most people have built-in limitations when it comes to buying anything in this economy. This includes predetermined budgets, psychological barriers or market comparison.
For me, it’s a combination of all three factors. I can appreciate good design, quality fabrics and artistic merit. I simply can’t stomach paying for something which would surely depreciate with time.
You can certainly make the argument that such an investment or one-time purchase would be worth it since it would never need to be replaced. However, I can easily counter with the opportunity cost rebuttal. I can spread out the money with multiple bags over the same time or repair broken parts on the same bag.
As for the insinuation that this is on par with say a Swiss Watch or bullet-proof 4×4 all terrain vehicle, I would adopt a wait and see attitude because other shops have been doing this for a long time with stellar reputations like Bailey Works and PAC Designs.
I’m not dissing the bag or Scott. I’m questioning the sanity of $563 price tag especially when compared to the market.
I have a bag made by Scott, I bought it from a courier. He sold it to me for half of what he paid.
It had already seen hard life and now I use it for work as a neutral support mechanic on cycle races.
I ride a motor bike for 8 hours some days, in addition to getting to the start and going home. I carry not only tools and spares but food and clothes. Sometimes I get up to pretty high speeds, and losing it would be a disaster. Especially if a buckle failed. So far that hasn’t happened.
It has earnt it’s keep.
When Scott makes some new bags I will without doubt buy one.
£350 for something better than what I already have is not expensive.
For £350 I could hire a small car for two weeks.
That money buys a bag that will probably survive until I retire, and I could probably sell it to a courier for half what I paid
I’m going to try my best to address the points raised again. I apologize in advance for the length of this post, but I’ve never been one to shy away from a good discussion.
Starting with this $563 subject and comparing that to the competition…..
As I mentioned before, the reason my bags are that price to you is because they’re not made in the US, with materials paid for in US dollars, and with wages paid in US dollars. They’re made in the UK, with materials and wages paid in UK pounds. To compare the price of a UK made bag to a US made one is ridiculous.
If you were to take that US company, selling a bag for $250 and move that company to the UK to manufacture them, the bag would no longer be sold for $250….it would be more like £250 GBP because of the GBP price of materials and wages.
If you in the US then wanted to buy one, you would have to convert it back to US dollars, and your ‘fraction of the price’ bag would no longer be a ‘fraction of the price’.
I’m not pushing my bags on any market, and fully understand how expensive the exchange rates make them, but that is something beyond my control unfortunately.
Your argument about how you can “spread out the money with multiple bags over the same time or repair broken parts on the same bag.” is exactly why I make my bags the way I do.
For me personally I don’t want to have to keep replacing bags every few months because I bought cheaper ones which haven’t lasted as well and will then just be dumped in a landfill somewhere, or have to keep being repaired. I would rather buy something of a higher quality and have it last me as long as possible.
Not everybody can be without a bag long enough to wait while it is repaired either, especially if that bag needs to be sent back to another country.
With regards to my reputation, I’ve been making bags for well over a decade, and professionally for nearly 7 years now. Anybody who knows me or has owned one of my products knows that I pride myself on my quality.
I have never once said that it’s impossible to make my bags without Cobra buckles, simply that I have no intention of reducing the quality or longevity simply to meet a certain price point.
I could make my bags out of any combination of materials…But what I would be left with is just another version of what many other companies have. What would be the point in every company in the world just making their version of exactly the same thing?
Having different choices to suit different peoples needs or tastes is a good thing, not a bad thing.
In this world of throwaway products that are designed to have limited lives so the company can sell you another of their products further down the line, I feel quite proud of the fact that I’m trying my hardest to make products which will hopefully last the owner a lifetime.
For me, there is more to being green than simply recycling things. My take on it is why not make your products to last as long as is physically possible in the first place?
With regards to this “please don’t insult the intelligence of readers by postulating that Pro Couriers demand the highest grade parts for their low wage jobs.”
I’m not insulting anybodies intelligence….I’m not trying to pull the wool over anybodies eyes here…I’m simply saying that I know first hand just how much abuse a working couriers bag receives. The implication made earlier that caving bags for example receive so much more abuse is slightly misleading, because i’m pretty sure there aren’t many people using caving bags for up to ten hours a day, 5 days a week, all year round.
I’m not asking anybody to buy my bags, I’m just giving them a longer lasting option if they want one. And as I said previously, I’m fully aware of the courier wage problems these days, which is why I always try my best to help. I’ve sponsored many alleycats and championships, polo tournaments, and donated to the London courier emergency fund…even though I’m living on the breadline myself. I have never once asked for my logo to be on fliers or done it for free advertising, I do it because it’s something close to my heart and is a good way to help people to get hold of my bags/pouches/belts or whatever.
With regards to this comment…”I think its way overpriced for what it is–a Messenger Bag supposedly designed for Pro Couriers but suspiciously priced for Fake Messengers.”
You’re obviously entitled to your own opinions, but there is nothing suspicious about my pricing. I would love to sell my bags for less, but it just isn’t possible without changing the materials or design, and that is something I’m not prepared to do. I have spent the last 2 years designing and testing my products, I’ve had to sell every bike I owned, give up my flat, and beg and borrow to allow me to keep working on my bags until I felt they were good enough and had been tested long enough to meet my standards. Even at these supposedly “way overpriced” prices I can barely scrape a living….but I would rather be broke and know that I never compromised my ideals than be rolling in money because I decided to take the easy option.
I honestly don’t care who buys my bags, just so long as they feel they have got their moneys worth.
If it isn’t obvious from my posts already, I’m not a businessman….I’m a cyclist who likes making really good bags which last a long time. I don’t care about marketing, current trends and fashions, price points, or much else that regular business revolves around…I only care about one thing…Making the absolute best bags I can.
Can we lock this thread? I believe this says it all.
1. $563 price tag: This is what U.S. consumers evaluate not the original price in British Pounds regardless of how our fiat currency is inflated or suppressed on the exchange.
2. Opportunity Cost: A big one-time purchase in any item relative to a person’s budgetary constraints must meet lofty thresholds to justify it. Otherwise, a more astute consumer will intrinsically weigh and evaluate the item against key competitors with price playing a major role unless you’re a Trust Fund kid.
3. Market Comparison: From what I understand, other shops have been at this game for a very long time with deserving accolades and reputations such as the aforementioned Bailey Works and PAC Designs. The advantage for American shops such as Bailey Works is that they don’t have to contend with exchange rates, expensive shipping rates or the hassle of dealing with a potential faulty product from an overseas one-person business. Their offerings are also durable, reliable and efficient at a much lower price point.
4. Cobra Buckles: This is subjective. Some people in life can get by for 20 years in a Honda Accord. Others think they need the latest technologies and fancy engineering to get from Whole Foods to the University without breaking down. I think Cobra Buckles are aesthetically appealing and they certainly have a reputation for excellence but most consumers I imagine don’t enjoy the idea of the cost being passed down to them.
5. The initial comments suggested that these bags were intended for the rigors and daily abuse of Pro Couriers. Then I questioned the objective if the price points are beyond the low wage earning potential of your average Pro Courier. The Designer countered with the appeal that he would make it feasible for Couriers to own his bag implying a deep discount. But he later contradicted himself with this statement: “I would love to sell my bags for less, but it just isn’t possible without changing the materials or design, and that is something I’m not prepared to do”. Why not just come out and say that your bags are priced for the upper crust but you’re willing to give a few bags a away for working Couriers instead of the misleading “bags designed for Couriers”. They’re designed for Couriers but priced for Hipsters. My point, Bailey Works is designed and priced for Couriers. This is what the American market looks like.
6. I love your bag but I’m staking this position because it seems this site is nothing but a mutual admiration society. Bloggers lavish Designers with praise. Regular readers agree. But the one important aspect of the shopping experience seems to habitually ignored: Cost.
7. Why “lock” this thread someone here has the inside track to the meaning of life?
OK….The exchange rate discussion is kind of pointless, as it’s something completely out of my control, and even if I were to make bags with regular designs, features, and materials, which sold for less, they will still be much higher priced than the US companies. To claim that my bags are simply ‘way overpriced’ while dismissing the fact that they are made in a country with a stronger currency and therefore higher material and labour costs is a little unfair. To imply that I can just drop the price so that people in other countries can afford them would be as unrealistic as me suggesting other people should live in the UK so that they can afford them.
The only point I would like to comment on really is number 5.
There is absolutely no contradiction in my comments. I WOULD love to sell my bags for less to everybody, but I can’t. I offer to help working couriers as much as I can because they are the people the bag was originally designed for, and because I have made a lot of friends in the courier community that appreciate what I do.
The reason I’m not going to ‘come out’ and say that my bags are ‘priced for the upper crust’ is because they aren’t. They’re not priced FOR anybody. They’re priced as low as I can price them based on the cost of materials and the time they take me to make. As I’ve said many times now, I’m not a business man, I don’t work to price points and target markets…I just make the bags I make, and if someone wants one I’ll sell them one. There really is nothing more to it than that. No hidden agendas, no attempts to make myself rich.
To me, designer handbags are ‘way overpriced’….they usually cost very little to make, but they sell for thousands of dollars. Some people will happily spend hundreds of dollars on fancy luggage which will only be used a couple of times a year. I design my bags for people who want to use them every day of the year.
It’s your choice to label my bags as ‘way overpriced’ if you choose, but to me they’re just great bags with very high materials costs, which take me a very long time to make, and make me very little money. If anybody views them as ‘way overpriced’ then they’re not the bags for them.
It’s not my intention to anger anybody with my opinions on this subject, so hopefully there are no hard feelings? :]
This isn’t worth getting angry over. I work in an industry which deals with market fluctuations so discussions over price points don’t effect me in any way since it’s irrational to stake any emotional investments into it.
I understand that you have little control or flexibility over the cost of materials but this only means to the consumer that inefficiencies are passed on to them so the goal is to find a more efficient means of buying something within a reasonable price range.
But my point is that “Reviews” and pieces on this Blog seem to be entirely one-sided in favor of the Designers almost every single time. This is not how the average consumer measures a product in a particular space or genre. Price is almost always a major component otherwise more people would be driving Exotic cars, living in leafy suburbs or working in Institutional Securities for Bulge Bracket Banks.
So when you sell or market a Messenger Bag, the consumer will consciously or unconsciously pit your offerings against the competition. It’s just what people are inclined to do given the plethora of sites, products and deals. “Why pay more for something when I can get it cheaper elsewhere?”. “Does the little fancy extras justify the enormous price increase?”. This is their M.O. and it can’t be ignored if businesses want to carve out market share. And it’s what I would do.
Again, I dig your bags but I don’t think I’m in the minority when I say the price is way more than what I would expect to pay.
Out of interest, What would you expect to pay for a UK handmade, fifty litre messenger bag, made with a combination of Dimension Polyant VX51 and VX42, 1000d and 500d cordura, toughtek, Rhinotek, military spec mesh, Austrialpin Cobra hardwear, marine hardwear, neodymium magnets, top quality webbing, velcro, thread etc, with fully adjustable, replaceable and reversible mainstraps, replaceable compression straps, replaceable back padding, etc ?
Bear in mind how much those materials cost to buy in the UK, in small quantities, taking into account the shipping costs for rolls of fabric and hardwear imported from other countries, plus import duty and VAT, and how long it takes to hand make a bag with those kind of features.
I’m honestly not having a dig here by the way, I’m genuinely interested what kind of GBP price you would consider reasonable for a bag like that?
$600+ USD, based on the materials alone
Taylor,
Can you break down the parts of the bag and source the materials from a site where prices are shown?
So straps, about 2-3 yards of fabric, buckles, pads, etc.?
Thanks.
Taylor,
By your comments and station in life, you have the requisite understanding of the market and insight on cost of materials.
I’m not being facetious or confrontational. I’m seriously interested in the actual price points for fabrics.
You said you would pay $600 for materials alone in the BRP Bag. So can you deconstruct the bag according to the specs available and source the price points to reputable sites?
Of course, the difference between materials cost and the retail price can be attributed to everything else in between production. This way, a neutral observer like me can gain a greater understanding of what it takes to produce such fine bags and why it cost so much.
Thanks.
What would I expect to pay?
Market Rate. The extras and upgrade would factor in with the decision but this requires a broader sampling pool of key competitors for sufficient analysis. To me, the current retail price is just ludicrous. For others who are immersed in the nuances of Industrial Design and the Delivery Services, they may see the value in paying the premium.
What would I actually pay?
At a discount because everything in the market is marked-up by everything in between shops to wholesalers to retailers.
I bought my Bailey Works Super Pro bag for a seasonal promotion a number of years ago for about $130-ish. I don’t remember the actual price. It currently retails for about $179. PAC Designs would cost a U.S. consumer $339 for the Ultimate. It has the added features of padded X-straps.
OK…using the PAC as a perfect example. That’s $339, made in Canada, with materials and labour paid for in Canadian dollars. Now think how much that bag would cost if it were made in the UK using the exact same pricing calculations, but with materials and labour paid in UK pounds instead, then convert that UK price back to US currency.
And that’s without the Cobra buckles in the equation.
This gives some indication of how it’s not as simple as saying my bags are ludicrously overpriced. They’re not, they’re just made that why by the exchange rates.
As another example…
The Japanese and Norwegians may find this £350 GBP price “cheap” compared to what they’re used to, after currency conversion, as the Yen and Kronor are very strong at the moment. Someone in Dubai may even worry about the quality of this bag as it is ridiculously cheap for them after currency conversion.
A family in Nigeria may think that you spending $5 USD on 3 pairs of cotton socks from Target is INSANE.
Or even a family in the US may think it is INSANE if you spend $15USD on one pair of Smartwool socks, compared to their budget of $5 for 3 pair of cotton socks from Target.
It’s all relative.
Scott,
Can you post your specs or material list and source the price points in which you pay from your wholesaler?
Do you buy imported Cordura 1,000 Denier Fabrics from the U.S. and other parts, construct it and then ship it back out?
Taylor,
Certainly. Most College kids think Natty Light is a fine brew but most adults with refine palates would opt for other brands like Sierra Nevada, Brooklyn Brewery, Guinness, Boddingtons, Newcastle, Hoegaarden, etc.
But I’m not convinced the extra features on the BRP Bag justifies the $563 US retail asking price.
I don’t see the price as being that crazy – yes a lot of people will see it and think – that’s a hell of a lot of money, I don’t disagree.
But then there are others who may have taken the time to understand the pricing or know something of Scott’s reputation for quality. Perhaps the same kind of people who buy McHale backpacks – which start around $500….
Also, the comparison with Baileyworks (and to a lesser extent PAC) is somewhat invalid in my opinion, if you were to sit the bags down side by side and compare them, I think you would start to understand that its not just a case of whacking on some extra fancy buckles and then adding $200 to the price.
I think we need to recognise that in all aspects of design and manufacture, there will be those individuals (and organisations occasionally) who are motivated to try and produce the perfect product and who (thankfully) don’t have a bunch of accountants to answer to.
I would like to see an objective comparison between leading Messenger Bags weighing all metrics, angles and price considerations.
No doubt, the BRP Messenger Bag is superior to Bailey Works Super Pro or PAC Design based on a cursory glance of the features but again, do the extras justify the higher retail price? You know my answer but I would like to see this expanded into a broader dialogue.
Only the individual in question can say whether or not they feel the extra features and lifespan is worth spending more money on. Nobody is in any position to speak for anyone but themselves on that matter.
I am usually the first person to say that it’s not worth it for many, if not most people. But that is why I don’t make mainstream bags for the majority market.
For me it’s more than worth it, which is why I make these bags in the first place, and for the other people who own them it’s worth it too according to their feedback.
Sure, I can agree with your premise that its a value call and its beholden to subjective variables. However, there needs to be objective standards by which to gauge “value” or what is commonly referred to as the “market” based on supply and demand. So if consumers were better equipped with how much materials actually cost from leading distributors or wholesalers, they can gain a greater appreciation for craftsmanship and art.
This is why it would be cool to see an actual side by side comparison between all the popular brands weighing everything from aesthetics to durability to prices.
I’ll step aside for now and allow for others on this site to promote their opinions, manifestos, designs, dictums, epigrams, syllogisms, marketing plans, pyramid schemes and sexual frustrations. Real life beckons.
It’s been real. No hard feelings. I hate Chrome. Love Bailey Works. Neutral on MW. Lust after Triple Aught Design. And generally, indifferent to Timbuk2.
As much as I’m enjoying this discussion, It’s just going to run and run. Too much of what is being discussed is simply down to personal opinion on how much we’re each prepared to pay for any given item.
I’ve listed quite a lot of my materials and components, but several of them I’m bound by contract with the manufacturers so can’t discuss pricing.
I’ve always been totally honest though with my friends and local customers as to how much goes into the bags, and they’re always shocked to see just what little profit is left for me at the end compared to how much time and effort goes into them.
It just comes down to what I have already said, i’m not pricing them for the US market, I’m pricing them based on what they cost me to make in the UK, with my main customer base being the UK.
Unfortunately I don’t have the ability to wipe out exchange rates. :[
I'm going to leave this for you guys to chat about now...I have to get back onto my sewing. :]
Exchange rates aside, someone who wants a bag of this quality is going to pay for it no matter how spendy it might be. Just saying. Better to buy the best and cry once than buy cheaper and cry every time you realize that it’s not what you wanted.
Anyway, to Scott. I’m a courier and I would love to purchase one of your hip pouches. As a messenger, having everything at your fingertips is essential. I lock and unlock my bike all day long and the u-lock has to be ready to go constantly. Plus, having a notebook, pen, flyers, etc. at hand is a bonus too. So basically I need a hip pouch and would like to own yours. I’ve tried getting ahold of you by email but it’s been at least a week with no reply. Could you manage to hook me up with one?
Really sorry for the delay in replying. I had an assistant that was answering my emails for me until just over a week ago, so I have fallen behind with them a bit.
This is the problem with being a one man show.
I’ll reply asap. Thanks for your patience.
Dear Scott/B.R.P,
It’s really nice to show your bags out here. Beautiful.
But what’s it worth if you don’t reply to emails at all for 3 weeks?
Of course you are busy. But no reaction at all?
What is it you want to accomplish ?
Regards Chris
Wow! Lots of good stuff there. I will add a bit re: durability. I repaired backpacks full time for about a year.
1. I’ve seen many many bags for all uses and will agree that plastic buckles break in time when being used.
2. 90% of the time, when a buckle breaks, its pretty easy to replace with another buckle with even a modicum of experience sewing.
3. Zippers fail A LOT. Zippers fail more than anything else on a bag. Period. I have my opinions on which brands work/which I’ve had bad luck with, but I’ll save it for another discussion.
4. Zippers can be VERY complicated to replace.
In my mind, after repairing 300+ bags, I design around zippers for longevity.
That being said, Cobra buckles the exact prescription if you want the very best and most durable buckle regardless of cost.
JC
P.S.
(Yea! I’ve been name dropped!)
You’re spot on John. Zippers are by far the most common thing to fail on bags. Its funny when a zipper fails, people often will change their perception of the bag altogether. Suddenly “this bag sucks”. Buckles are 2nd.
If someone create “the 100% guaranteed fail-proof zipper” they would become a billionaire.
I carried a TUMI for over a decade that the Drings for the shoulder straps broke, I replaced them. The loops for the Drings broke, I repaired them. Both of the main zippers wore out (worn teeth, and the teeth pulled away from the stitching), and no one I could find was willing to replace the zippers. So I’m still looking for a new bag as the one I had isn’t made any more.
(summary: zippers are really important)
Completely agree. Good zippers can transform a $300 pack into a piece of garbage in minutes. Anyway, you’re in the market for a new shoulder bag? What have you been looking at so far, Steve? There are some nice options out there (all which are using solid Ykk, Ideal Fasteners, and Riri zippers)
Taylor:
The TUMI I had dated from about 1999, is no longer made, and is most similar to their current Alpha #96160. Switched to an Oakley SI Computer Bag as a way to detach from the falling-apart TUMI. The external pouches on the SI are a bit snug, the main buckles for the flap are hard to manage, and the end straps for bottles and such don’t hold well. Rattles more than I like. Currently switching to a backpack as a test to see if I like backpack over messenger.
Current options, none looked at in-person: if backpack considering GoRuck GR1 or Kifaru X-Ray, based on posts on this site.
(more likely) For messenger/horizontal bags, maybe 511tactical Rush or TAD Dispatch (although both look slightly low-volume for me), Tom Bihn Super Ego, Mission Workshop Shed or Rummy. I wouldn’t mind a good look at BRP, wanting to stay on topic for this post.
What I don’t get is that comments here start in Sept. of 2012.
It’s now March of 2013.
And still no website up for BRP.
What gives?!?
I doubt there is much need for a website to drive sales. There used to be an insanely long waiting list just from word of mouth…
Scott is the man.
And yes, his waiting list is insanely long.
I’m still waiting on mine… been over a year I believe?
His stuff is top notch, unlike any other I’ve seen.
Can’t wait to finally sling one of these over my shoulder…
This is a sad read at times. I am impressed with BRP’s patience. Scott is as genuine and hard working as people get – not being the least bit money-driven is a big failing (or strength) of his.
Scott has respect in the London courier community, not just for the bags and pouches but also for his integrity as an honest guy inside the ‘scene’ who is often happy to put his non-courier waiting list on hold to finish a free prize bag for an alley cat without much PR in exchange. Accusations of “selling out” to the hipster crowd are just absurd.
To a courier, a good bag is as important as their bike, their lock and the rest of their work(!) gear. Locks and shoes are similar – there are way cheaper and lighter alternatives to Kryptonite, but show me a long-term courier with a cheaper lock. No matter how skint you are – quality is way more important than price when it comes to work tools.
I carry 15-20Kg camera gear on my back all day sometimes – styling is irrelevant, weight of empty bag is irrelevant, price is secondary – what counts is my health/comfort, safety of the contents and nothing failing on me when I am out doing my job. Zippers, plastic clips and badly designed attachment straps are all things that have failed me on £100-200 LowePro bags while out on a job.
I can’t justify a BRP-made shoulder bag for my groceries – but if there was a camera bag with this amount of OCD engineering, price would be secondary. Unfortunately, Scott is not interested in photographers, although we are a vastly more profitable market. Despite requests, he’s not interesed in making camera bags beyond helping to source a camera insert that would fit. How (financially) narrow minded of him *wink*
Some people (couriers, photographers, DJs…) need over-engineered _work_ bags. That’s what BRP delivers. It is an expensive work tool – excessive for 99% casual users, life-long investment for those for professionals.
P.S. Scott, greetings from Oslo House, I’m looking at Vinyl Pimp’s 4-year old Grobag – like new despite the daily abuse he throws at it! Stick to your old ways!!!